Обсуждение: Birmingham City Council chose Oracle, went broke because of it ;)
Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny: https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/ "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5 million)." Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG + a decent vendor instead? :) + Justin
Nice find Justin. I guess this little puppy is still ongoing as well: https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/12/github_microsoft_openai_copilot/
 | Judge won't toss out two key charges, software source slurping case still on www.theregister.com |
-Katie
From: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
Sent: 06 September 2023 19:48
To: PostgreSQL Advocacy <pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org>
Subject: Birmingham City Council chose Oracle, went broke because of it ;)
Sent: 06 September 2023 19:48
To: PostgreSQL Advocacy <pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org>
Subject: Birmingham City Council chose Oracle, went broke because of it ;)
Attention : courriel externe | external email
Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/
"Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has
declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project
costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5
million)."
Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG
+ a decent vendor instead? :)
+ Justin
Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/
"Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has
declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project
costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5
million)."
Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG
+ a decent vendor instead? :)
+ Justin
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49 AM Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote: > > Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny: > > https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/ > > "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has > declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project > costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5 > million)." > > Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG > + a decent vendor instead? :) In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle something like that... -- Magnus Hagander Me: https://www.hagander.net/ Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/
On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 09:23, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49 AM Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote:
>
> Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/
>
> "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has
> declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project
> costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5
> million)."
>
> Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG
> + a decent vendor instead? :)
In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So
PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products
out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle
something like that...
Indeed. It also only amounts for a fraction of the council's liabilities. The vast majority is from an equal pay judgement against them, which iirc, totals a couple of billion pounds (of which they've paid off over half in the last decade I believe).
So, yeah, the Oracle thing is a massive screw up. But it's not what caused the majority of their problems.
Dave Page
pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org
PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
Well a) the costs of the system (still undelivered) is 4x the initial contract ; and b) they've determined that the ERP was incapable of performing the functions of the contract because it orientation for manufacturing rather than HR. So not even Oracle has a competing product!
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 4:28 PM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
--On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 09:23, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49 AM Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote:
>
> Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/
>
> "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has
> declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project
> costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5
> million)."
>
> Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG
> + a decent vendor instead? :)
In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So
PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products
out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle
something like that...Indeed. It also only amounts for a fraction of the council's liabilities. The vast majority is from an equal pay judgement against them, which iirc, totals a couple of billion pounds (of which they've paid off over half in the last decade I believe).So, yeah, the Oracle thing is a massive screw up. But it's not what caused the majority of their problems.Dave PagepgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.orgPostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
An important lesson here is to always sit down with a client and understand their needs before selling an ERP.......
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 3:51 PM Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey@proteus-tech.com> wrote:
Well a) the costs of the system (still undelivered) is 4x the initial contract ; and b) they've determined that the ERP was incapable of performing the functions of the contract because it orientation for manufacturing rather than HR. So not even Oracle has a competing product!On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 4:28 PM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:--On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 09:23, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49 AM Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote:
>
> Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/
>
> "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has
> declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project
> costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5
> million)."
>
> Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG
> + a decent vendor instead? :)
In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So
PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products
out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle
something like that...Indeed. It also only amounts for a fraction of the council's liabilities. The vast majority is from an equal pay judgement against them, which iirc, totals a couple of billion pounds (of which they've paid off over half in the last decade I believe).So, yeah, the Oracle thing is a massive screw up. But it's not what caused the majority of their problems.Dave PagepgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.orgPostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
Efficito: Hosted Accounting and ERP. Robust and Flexible. No vendor lock-in.
On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 10:51, Chris Travers <chris.travers@gmail.com> wrote:
An important lesson here is to always sit down with a client and understand their needs before selling an ERP.......
Meanwhile, there's a sales guy (well, team) somewhere feeling very happy about all the consulting hours they're booking and what their commission is going to be...
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 3:51 PM Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey@proteus-tech.com> wrote:Well a) the costs of the system (still undelivered) is 4x the initial contract ; and b) they've determined that the ERP was incapable of performing the functions of the contract because it orientation for manufacturing rather than HR. So not even Oracle has a competing product!On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 4:28 PM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:--On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 09:23, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49 AM Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote:
>
> Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/
>
> "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has
> declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project
> costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5
> million)."
>
> Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG
> + a decent vendor instead? :)
In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So
PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products
out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle
something like that...Indeed. It also only amounts for a fraction of the council's liabilities. The vast majority is from an equal pay judgement against them, which iirc, totals a couple of billion pounds (of which they've paid off over half in the last decade I believe).So, yeah, the Oracle thing is a massive screw up. But it's not what caused the majority of their problems.Dave PagepgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.orgPostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org--Best Wishes,Chris TraversEfficito: Hosted Accounting and ERP. Robust and Flexible. No vendor lock-in.
Dave Page
pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org
PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
On 9/7/23 02:49, Chris Travers wrote: > An important lesson here is to always sit down with a client and > understand their needs before selling an ERP....... Unless you have a legal department that will run the customer into the ground with litigation. In a somewhat related case: https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-home/news-media-releases/oregon-oracle-reach-settlement-worth-more-than-100-million-in-it-modernization-and-other-benefits/ Where Oracle ended settling by paying ~$35 million in cash and ~$60 million in credits for a failed project with the state of Oregon that they collected $240 million for. -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
If civil servants adopt the age-old pay-for-value strategy, the “zero-failure ERP implementation strategy”, citizens will only lose very little:
1. Let the city's own IT staff implement the project.
2. They hire only one consultant to train these IT people in all the necessary skills to implement their project with a decent ERP development and execution framework powered by PostgreSQL to implement their projects. City consulates will try to limit overall training days to 5 days unless their IT staff does not have PostgreSQL, basic accounting, and large database design skills.
3. If the majority of IT staff or end users are not satisfied with the above ERP framework during implementation, City Consul will not purchase the ERP framework.
1. Let the city's own IT staff implement the project.
2. They hire only one consultant to train these IT people in all the necessary skills to implement their project with a decent ERP development and execution framework powered by PostgreSQL to implement their projects. City consulates will try to limit overall training days to 5 days unless their IT staff does not have PostgreSQL, basic accounting, and large database design skills.
3. If the majority of IT staff or end users are not satisfied with the above ERP framework during implementation, City Consul will not purchase the ERP framework.
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 4:23 PM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49 AM Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote:
>
> Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/
>
> "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, has
> declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle project
> costs ballooned from £20 million to around £100 million ($125.5
> million)."
>
> Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose PG
> + a decent vendor instead? :)
In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So
PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products
out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle
something like that...
--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/