Обсуждение: A briefing is needed...
Greetings! Well, thanks for finally letting me in, I promise not to spit on the floor. The reason I'm in here was because I proposed some changes to website layout: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php and then even made a mock-up of them: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00222.php but was informed by Robert Treat that PostgreSQL website is in such a sorry state that it cannot be quickly redesigned. Thus I'm willing to contribute a bit of my time to website development. I'd like to know some things before I start: 1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a member of website team", but actively working? 2) Is there an adequate design available for postgresql.org? Current thing looks extremely unprofessional, and I'm sure that there are a lot of people who would be willing to contribute their skills for postgresql.org... 3) Is the thing in portal dir in pgweb module the "new" postgresql.org? If yes, what needs to be done to it to make it "live"? Is there some TODO list? Where is database schema? 4) If the "portal" thing is not quite there yet, should I dedicate some time to moving the common HTML to common header/footer in the current www dir?
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote: > Greetings! > > Well, thanks for finally letting me in, I promise not to spit on the floor. > > The reason I'm in here was because I proposed some changes to website > layout: > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php > and then even made a mock-up of them: > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00222.php > but was informed by Robert Treat that PostgreSQL website is in such a > sorry state that it cannot be quickly redesigned. > > Thus I'm willing to contribute a bit of my time to website development. > I'd like to know some things before I start: > > 1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a > member of website team", but actively working? From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Hi! Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a >>member of website team", but actively working? > > >From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ... From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb, and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote: > Hi! > > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a > >>member of website team", but actively working? > > > > > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ... > > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb, > and the last commit there was 2 months ago... that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding, so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ... right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work, making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :) ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Hi! Marc G. Fournier wrote: > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding, > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ... > > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work, > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :) Translation: even you, the leader of the whole project, don't know anything about what's going on with the website. Encouraging. :]
On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 13:14, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> > >>member of website team", but actively working?
> > >
> > >
> > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
> >
> > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> > and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
>
> that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
>
> right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
>
Alexy, I sent an email to _Andreas_ asking for an update on the status
of his code. (CC'd to the list, but maybe before you were subscribed) so
we're waiting on a reply from him.
about the database schema... is the schema enough? for the main site i
believe we have all of the docs loaded into the database as well, which
makes it a fairly large for downloading if you want data with it. If
the schema is enough though I can make a schema dump and check it in.
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote: > Hi! > > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I > > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding, > > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ... > > > > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us > > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work, > > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :) > > Translation: even you, the leader of the whole project, don't know > anything about what's going on with the website. Encouraging. :] Dave/Robert are the webmaster(s) ... I just put my input in when asked ... I am the first person to admit that my "creative abilities" leave alot to be desired at the best of times, so other then knowing what I don't like, I'm useless on the web site :) ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
If you mean me, my name is Andreas :) However, I must confess I didn't do anything on the code since we started the discussion on the Layout/XHTML/CSS (I thinkthat was mid November). This also means the old todo list I posted that time should be even current. I currently can'tfind it, does anyone have it archived? The last summary was the code is working (well, it was, it may need some updates now as the main code has been changed) andwe now need the new layout before we can import the pages... I'm sorry I wasn't very active on this list the last months (but I'm of course reading it), I'm very busy (and everytimeone project ends I get two new projects :( so I don't think I can spend much time on this for the next two to threemonths, I'm sorry). Mit freundlichen Grüßen Andreas Grabmüller ----- Original-Nachricht ----- Von: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org> An: Alexey Borzov <borz_off@cs.msu.su> CC: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>, pgsql-www@postgresql.org Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 07:21 PM Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed... > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a > > >>member of website team", but actively working? > > > > > > > > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until > > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ... > > > > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb, > > and the last commit there was 2 months ago... > > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding, > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ... > > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work, > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :) > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html -- LetzPlay.de | Freemail: http://www.letzplay.de/mail | Forenhosting: http://www.letzplay.de/foren
OK folks... heres what I have looking back at Andreas emails: 1) Some fine tuning on the layout 2) Adding the static pages 3) Translating the pages, news, events etc. into german and maybe some other languages if we find someone to translate it 4) Creating something that handles old links as the new ones are not compatible 5) Reformatting the PHP code as some parts currently look horrible ;) 6) All the things I have forgotten... which all seems pretty vauge... so ISTM the next step is for someone to create an actual working copy of the site; maybe dave at devel.postgresql.org and a couple others at home; so we can do some testing on it and see what needs to be fixed. (#1 #2 #6) I think #3 can wait till we go live ie. once its up people can begin working on translations. #5 is another behind the scenes kind of thing, so unless we turn up anything overly crusty I think this can be done once released (and might have to be depending on layout changes needed) #4 might be tricky... how different are the urls? we'll need to try to work something out for that. does this sound workable to everyone? Robert Treat On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:00, Andreas Grabmüller wrote: > If you mean me, my name is Andreas :) > > However, I must confess I didn't do anything on the code since we started the discussion on the Layout/XHTML/CSS (I thinkthat was mid November). This also means the old todo list I posted that time should be even current. I currently can'tfind it, does anyone have it archived? > > The last summary was the code is working (well, it was, it may need some updates now as the main code has been changed)and we now need the new layout before we can import the pages... > > I'm sorry I wasn't very active on this list the last months (but I'm of course reading it), I'm very busy (and everytimeone project ends I get two new projects :( so I don't think I can spend much time on this for the next two to threemonths, I'm sorry). > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen > Andreas Grabmüller > > ----- Original-Nachricht ----- > Von: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org> > An: Alexey Borzov <borz_off@cs.msu.su> > CC: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>, pgsql-www@postgresql.org > Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 07:21 PM > Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed... > > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote: > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > > > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a > > > >>member of website team", but actively working? > > > > > > > > > > > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until > > > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ... > > > > > > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb, > > > and the last commit there was 2 months ago... > > > > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I > > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding, > > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ... > > > > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us > > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work, > > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :) > > > > ---- > > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html > > -- > LetzPlay.de > | Freemail: http://www.letzplay.de/mail > | Forenhosting: http://www.letzplay.de/foren > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings -- Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Dear Robert Treat , >about the database schema... is the schema enough? for the main site i >believe we have all of the docs loaded into the database as well, which >makes it a fairly large for downloading if you want data with it. If >the schema is enough though I can make a schema dump and check it in. > > Database schema is only whats required . Infact you may provide both and depending on the size we would opt to download which ever we think will get through my modem. Also please mention whats the DB version . Regards, Vishal Kashyap
Dear Robert Treat >does this sound workable to everyone? > > Yes as per me its workable lets hear about others Regards Vishal Kashyap
> -----Original Message----- > From: Alexey Borzov [mailto:borz_off@cs.msu.su] > Sent: 14 January 2004 17:51 > To: pgsql-www@postgresql.org > Subject: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed... > > Greetings! > > Well, thanks for finally letting me in, I promise not to spit > on the floor. Good, I just cleaned it. > The reason I'm in here was because I proposed some changes to website > layout: > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php > and then even made a mock-up of them: > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00222.php > but was informed by Robert Treat that PostgreSQL website is > in such a sorry state that it cannot be quickly redesigned. That's not exactly the case. It can be easily redesigned, however we have other priorities right now which are more difficult - eg. Internationalisation. > Thus I'm willing to contribute a bit of my time to website > development. > I'd like to know some things before I start: > > 1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean > not "is a member of website team", but actively working? I'm actively maintaining but not developing at present. > 2) Is there an adequate design available for postgresql.org? > Current thing looks extremely unprofessional, and I'm sure > that there are a lot of people who would be willing to > contribute their skills for postgresql.org... First, I would suggest not pissing off the guy with root. Second, there are lot's of people who offer to contribute 'professional' designs (I'm not talking about those on this list btw) - there have yet to be any that have come up with anything we all liked better. > 3) Is the thing in portal dir in pgweb module the "new" > postgresql.org? Yes. > If yes, what needs to be done to it to make it "live"? Is > there some TODO list? Where is database schema? The database schema is the one currently in use. I am about to extract a copy for general consumption. > 4) If the "portal" thing is not quite there yet, should I > dedicate some time to moving the common HTML to common > header/footer in the current www dir? Perhaps. I shall post another message with the requirements for the new site in a minute. Regards, Dave.
Thank you for finding it :)
About the urls: The new ones all look like the following:
/en/{page}.htm
/en/documentation/{version}/(interactive|static)/{page}.htm
It should not be difficult to create an automatic wrapper for the documentation as version, interactive|static and page
arethe same. The big problem are the other pages as the page names are not compatible (by design: For example, the
surveysdo now have the url survey.{number}.htm and so on. Nothing of the output has .php links any more for search
enginecompatibility and caching ability). So I beliefe we need to create a wrapper for each and every page...
For anyone who has not seen it yet, you can see the current status at http://wwwdevel2.postgresql.org
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Grabmüller
----- Original-Nachricht -----
Von: "Robert Treat" <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net>
An: webmaster@letzplay.de
CC: borz_off@cs.msu.su, scrappy@postgresql.org, pgsql-www@postgresql.org
Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 08:14 PM
Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...
> OK folks... heres what I have looking back at Andreas emails:
>
> 1) Some fine tuning on the layout
> 2) Adding the static pages
> 3) Translating the pages, news, events etc. into german and maybe some
> other languages if we find someone to translate it
> 4) Creating something that handles old links as the new ones are not
> compatible
> 5) Reformatting the PHP code as some parts currently look horrible ;)
> 6) All the things I have forgotten...
>
> which all seems pretty vauge... so ISTM the next step is for someone to
> create an actual working copy of the site; maybe dave at
> devel.postgresql.org and a couple others at home; so we can do some
> testing on it and see what needs to be fixed. (#1 #2 #6)
>
> I think #3 can wait till we go live ie. once its up people can begin
> working on translations.
>
> #5 is another behind the scenes kind of thing, so unless we turn up
> anything overly crusty I think this can be done once released (and might
> have to be depending on layout changes needed)
>
> #4 might be tricky... how different are the urls? we'll need to try to
> work something out for that.
>
>
> does this sound workable to everyone?
>
> Robert Treat
>
> On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:00, Andreas Grabmüller wrote:
> > If you mean me, my name is Andreas :)
> >
> > However, I must confess I didn't do anything on the code since we started the discussion on the Layout/XHTML/CSS (I
thinkthat was mid November). This also means the old todo list I posted that time should be even current. I currently
can'tfind it, does anyone have it archived?
> >
> > The last summary was the code is working (well, it was, it may need some updates now as the main code has been
changed)and we now need the new layout before we can import the pages...
> >
> > I'm sorry I wasn't very active on this list the last months (but I'm of course reading it), I'm very busy (and
everytimeone project ends I get two new projects :( so I don't think I can spend much time on this for the next two to
threemonths, I'm sorry).
> >
> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> > Andreas Grabmüller
> >
> > ----- Original-Nachricht -----
> > Von: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
> > An: Alexey Borzov <borz_off@cs.msu.su>
> > CC: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>, pgsql-www@postgresql.org
> > Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 07:21 PM
> > Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...
> >
> > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> > > > >>member of website team", but actively working?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > > > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
> > > >
> > > > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> > > > and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
> > >
> > > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> > > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> > > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
> > >
> > > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> > > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> > > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> > > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> > >
> > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> > >
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
> >
> > --
> > LetzPlay.de
> > | Freemail: http://www.letzplay.de/mail
> > | Forenhosting: http://www.letzplay.de/foren
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>
> --
> Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
--
LetzPlay.de
| Freemail: http://www.letzplay.de/mail
| Forenhosting: http://www.letzplay.de/foren
Dave Page wrote: > That's not exactly the case. It can be easily redesigned, however we > have other priorities right now which are more difficult - eg. > Internationalisation. The internationalization system I see in CVS right now doesn't look very well thought out. Separating the text from the context where it will appear will not make the site very maintainable. Plus, it doesn't look like this system is going to have a lot of external tool support for editing, verifying, and updating translations. The same mistakes have been made before, see catgets, Java properties, various similar key=>string attempts. Check out WML and gettext for better approaches. Not only do they fulfill the criterion of not separating text from context, they also have tool support and are actually used in situations similar to ours.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Eisentraut [mailto:peter_e@gmx.net] > Sent: 14 January 2004 19:41 > To: Dave Page; Alexey Borzov; pgsql-www@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed... > > Dave Page wrote: > > That's not exactly the case. It can be easily redesigned, > however we > > have other priorities right now which are more difficult - eg. > > Internationalisation. > > The internationalization system I see in CVS right now > doesn't look very well thought out. Separating the text from > the context where it will appear will not make the site very > maintainable. Hmm, we use gettext on the pgAdmin site (and keep the text in the context in which it will appear) and I find the site a real pain to maintain. The old site (although only in English) was much easier to maintain - it kept content in a db and used a single php script to display all pages bar a few odd scripts. > Plus, it doesn't look like this system is > going to have a lot of external tool support for editing, > verifying, and updating translations. External like poEdit or kBabel or external like an admin page (as opposed to updates through psql)? There will certainly be the latter. Regards, Dave
On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:33, Andreas Grabmüller wrote:
> Thank you for finding it :)
>
> About the urls: The new ones all look like the following:
>
> /en/{page}.htm
> /en/documentation/{version}/(interactive|static)/{page}.htm
>
we need to change /documentation/ to /docs/ but otherwise can we put in
an error handler document that, upon 404 adds an /en/ bit into the URL?
seems that would catch most of the old links. (unless we can just leave
out /en/ for the english site entirely and just have the /gr/ show up
for other langs...
> It should not be difficult to create an automatic wrapper for the documentation as version, interactive|static and
pageare the same. The big problem are the other pages as the page names are not compatible (by design: For example, the
surveysdo now have the url survey.{number}.htm and so on. Nothing of the output has .php links any more for search
enginecompatibility and caching ability). So I beliefe we need to create a wrapper for each and every page...
>
i'm not overly concerned about breaking links for the surveys.. does the
news have to be done that way? i'd be more concerned about keeping those
links working, though again with some magic error-handler tech we could
overcome it....
> For anyone who has not seen it yet, you can see the current status at http://wwwdevel2.postgresql.org
>
Aah... one problem I now recall is the right menu bar doesn't line up
with the right banner add at the top, we should fix that.
Robert Treat
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> Andreas Grabmüller
>
> ----- Original-Nachricht -----
> Von: "Robert Treat" <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net>
> An: webmaster@letzplay.de
> CC: borz_off@cs.msu.su, scrappy@postgresql.org, pgsql-www@postgresql.org
> Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 08:14 PM
> Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...
>
> > OK folks... heres what I have looking back at Andreas emails:
> >
> > 1) Some fine tuning on the layout
> > 2) Adding the static pages
> > 3) Translating the pages, news, events etc. into german and maybe some
> > other languages if we find someone to translate it
> > 4) Creating something that handles old links as the new ones are not
> > compatible
> > 5) Reformatting the PHP code as some parts currently look horrible ;)
> > 6) All the things I have forgotten...
> >
> > which all seems pretty vauge... so ISTM the next step is for someone to
> > create an actual working copy of the site; maybe dave at
> > devel.postgresql.org and a couple others at home; so we can do some
> > testing on it and see what needs to be fixed. (#1 #2 #6)
> >
> > I think #3 can wait till we go live ie. once its up people can begin
> > working on translations.
> >
> > #5 is another behind the scenes kind of thing, so unless we turn up
> > anything overly crusty I think this can be done once released (and might
> > have to be depending on layout changes needed)
> >
> > #4 might be tricky... how different are the urls? we'll need to try to
> > work something out for that.
> >
> >
> > does this sound workable to everyone?
> >
> > Robert Treat
> >
> > On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:00, Andreas Grabmüller wrote:
> > > If you mean me, my name is Andreas :)
> > >
> > > However, I must confess I didn't do anything on the code since we started the discussion on the Layout/XHTML/CSS
(Ithink that was mid November). This also means the old todo list I posted that time should be even current. I
currentlycan't find it, does anyone have it archived?
> > >
> > > The last summary was the code is working (well, it was, it may need some updates now as the main code has been
changed)and we now need the new layout before we can import the pages...
> > >
> > > I'm sorry I wasn't very active on this list the last months (but I'm of course reading it), I'm very busy (and
everytimeone project ends I get two new projects :( so I don't think I can spend much time on this for the next two to
threemonths, I'm sorry).
> > >
> > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> > > Andreas Grabmüller
> > >
> > > ----- Original-Nachricht -----
> > > Von: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
> > > An: Alexey Borzov <borz_off@cs.msu.su>
> > > CC: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>, pgsql-www@postgresql.org
> > > Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 07:21 PM
> > > Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi!
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> > > > > >>member of website team", but actively working?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > > > > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
> > > > >
> > > > > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> > > > > and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
> > > >
> > > > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> > > > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> > > > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
> > > >
> > > > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> > > > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> > > > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
> > > >
> > > > ----
> > > > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> > > > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> > > >
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Hi all, > > The internationalization system I see in CVS right now > > doesn't look very well thought out. Separating the text from > > the context where it will appear will not make the site very > > maintainable. > That's what I think. When it is a simple website it is OK, but when it's a Portal, IMHO it's a pain in the neck. > Hmm, we use gettext on the pgAdmin site (and keep the text in the > context in which it will appear) and I find the site a real pain to > maintain. The old site (although only in English) was much easier to > maintain - it kept content in a db and used a single php script to > display all pages bar a few odd scripts. > Yep, I know the gettext extension for php is not a real solution for translation. But I think it's the right thing. I'm workingin an extension of gettext to made the support of internationalization to markup languages (XML, HTML, SGML, etc).Maybe it improve the gettext scenario. Another idea: 1) use index.html.en, index.html.de, index.html.pt_BR for static pages; 2) grad browser language and use it in the dinamic pages; PS> I just code the Weekly News extension for the website and I will post it tomorrow for comments. It's based in the actualdesign. Regards, -- Euler Taveira de Oliveira euler (at) ufgnet.ufg.br Desenvolvedor Web e Administrador de Sistemas UFGNet - Universidade Federal de Goiás
Andreas Grabmüller wrote:
> About the urls: The new ones all look like the following:
>
> /en/{page}.htm
> /en/documentation/{version}/(interactive|static)/{page}.htm
The language shouldn't have to appear in the URL at all. The browser
and the web server can work that out themselves.
Dave Page wrote: > Hmm, we use gettext on the pgAdmin site (and keep the text in the > context in which it will appear) and I find the site a real pain to > maintain. The old site (although only in English) was much easier to > maintain - it kept content in a db and used a single php script to > display all pages bar a few odd scripts. Gettext via PHP isn't a terribly good system. But the idea proposed elsewhere, to maintain the content in XML and extract the strings from there is a very promising approach and not terribly hard to implement. XML could of course mean XHTML, but you might even consider a small abstraction layer above that and include the common parts in the transformation process. (XSLT being aware of processing instructions should allow handling PHP as well.) > > Plus, it doesn't look like this system is > > going to have a lot of external tool support for editing, > > verifying, and updating translations. > > External like poEdit or kBabel or external like an admin page (as > opposed to updates through psql)? There will certainly be the latter. A web admin page to manage translations doesn't sound very efficient. The final web page will have thousands of strings to translate and will hopefully see frequent updates. With existing tools that translators are used to (say, poEdit or KBabel), this can be managed very efficiently. With a web interface, translators are going to sit there forever and have no ease of use. Plus, you're going to have to invent access control and version control all over again. Translation management tools are not just editors. They allow access to compendia, do spell checking, syntax checking, allow for automatic merging of updates, handle encoding issues, have integration with CVS, and more things. I'm not saying gettext is perfect for this job. We could take a closer look at WML or something completely different. But the criteria (1) keep the text close to the context, (2) keep the original text close to the translated text, (3) tool support for translators, are essential for both web site maintenance and translation maintenance.
On Jan 15, 2004, at 4:41 AM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Dave Page wrote: >> That's not exactly the case. It can be easily redesigned, however we >> have other priorities right now which are more difficult - eg. >> Internationalisation. <snip/> > The same mistakes have > been made before, see catgets, Java properties, various similar > key=>string attempts. Check out WML and gettext for better approaches. > Not only do they fulfill the criterion of not separating text from > context, they also have tool support and are actually used in > situations similar to ours. Have you looked at xml:tm (translation memory) or XIFF at all? There's a recent article at xml.com about it (<http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/01/07/xmltm.html>). I don't know a lot about it, but am wondering if it wouldn't be another option. I don't know much about WML either, but am off to learn! Michael Glaesemann grzm myrealbox com
Hi, > Have you looked at xml:tm (translation memory) or XIFF at all? There's > a recent article at xml.com about it > (<http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/01/07/xmltm.html>). I don't know a lot > about it, but am wondering if it wouldn't be another option. I don't > know much about WML either, but am off to learn! > It's an interesting solution but we don't have software to manage it! I'm working in a extension of gettext to SGML/XML languages.I think this is interesting because we have the *tool* -- gettext. -- Euler Taveira de Oliveira euler (at) ufgnet.ufg.br Desenvolvedor Web e Administrador de Sistemas UFGNet - Universidade Federal de Goiás