Обсуждение: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers
Folks, Bear with me just a moment. I am brevity challenged. My wife wants to do some serious remodeling of our kitchen. I have a hammer, some nails, a screwdriver and a lawnmower. I received a "C" in 7th grade shop, which is when I believe my talents for carpentry peaked. Do it myself -- or get a professional? My generalized suggestion (a bit tongue-in-cheek) -- PR (for release) "PostgreSQL (Advocacy) Group today grudgingly acknowledged that PostgreSQL is the world's best Open Source object relational database. The Elephant trumpeted, "Our ability to effectively market my enormous strengths has been lacking. I am now seeking the advise, guidance and support of a professional Marketing/Public Relations firm that will enable me to become the database of choice for individuals, small, medium and large businesses around the world. The firm that is chosen will be compensated with significant, ongoing publicity. And a T-shirt. Interested Marketing/PR firms should contact ....@...." I have only been on this list for a couple of weeks and certainly have NOT earned the right to be critical. Many people have done their best. But I can't help but feeling like we are trying to remodel the kitchen with a lawnmower. I suggest throwing a trial balloon out there and see if some real marketing pro's (preferably International) grab it. Being able to say that PostgreSQL is a "success story" is much like PostgreSQL saying "XYZ (insert Monster company) is a happy user". Wouldn't surprise me to see users increase by 5x over the course of a full, implemented year. Thanks, Mike E.
Mike, > I suggest throwing a trial balloon out there and see > if some real marketing pro's (preferably > International) grab it. Being able to say that > PostgreSQL is a "success story" is much like > PostgreSQL saying "XYZ (insert Monster company) is a > happy user". Wouldn't surprise me to see users > increase by 5x over the course of a full, > implemented year. This is a whole community of do-it-yourselfers. Actually, a marketing firm volunteered to help us a couple years back; unfortunately, the community wasn't ready to accept that kind of help and, well, the relationship ended badly. One of the big problems with that event was that there was no consensus on what we wanted the marketing firm to do and what we wanted to do ourselves. Also, they wanted to push us toward deciding on an "image" for the project at a time when a substantial minority of the community wasn't even in agreement that we needed organized PR at all. So before we started a relationship with an outside agency, we'd need to get a consensus on what we wanted them to do. Further, I tend to think that most of our limitations in marketing/PR are related to lack of manpower rather than lack of knowledge. For something (case studies, advertising, contacting users, print materials) outside marketeers could help; for other things (releases, web site, corporate relations, oss relations, "image") they could only advise us editorially; we'd still have to do the work. And professional marketeers always want to talk about the "big picture", which leads off into political debate. Add to this that PostgreSQL is supported by several companies each of whom has their own marketing and you find a project management task far beyond the bandwidth of anyone on this list. Plus, if Sun and SRA and CMD and PGInc and FJ etc. are marketing PostgreSQL, does the community really need to put a lot of effort into it? Now, some of us (mostly foundation organizers) have talked about having a PostgreSQL trade association so that the supporting companies could pour money into joint marketing of PostgreSQL. I think that would be a lot more likely to be successful than trying to form a relationship with outside marketing via this list. --Josh
I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of effort. Would NOT want to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee. A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought. Thanks, Mike Josh Berkus wrote: > Mike, > >> I suggest throwing a trial balloon out there and see >> if some real marketing pro's (preferably >> International) grab it. Being able to say that >> PostgreSQL is a "success story" is much like >> PostgreSQL saying "XYZ (insert Monster company) is a >> happy user". Wouldn't surprise me to see users >> increase by 5x over the course of a full, >> implemented year. > > > > Now, some of us (mostly foundation organizers) have talked about > having a PostgreSQL trade association so that the supporting companies > could pour money into joint marketing of PostgreSQL. I think that > would be a lot more likely to be successful than trying to form a > relationship with outside marketing via this list. > > --Josh > > >
On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:01:25AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could > contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of effort. Would NOT want > to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee. > > A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought. I think the time is probably right for some kind of alliance of the commercial players in PostgreSQL. I'm certainly in favor of it, at least personally. I expect my employer would be as well. -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461
We would certainly join and contribute.
-- Andy
Andy Astor, CEO
EnterpriseDB Corporation
777 New Durham Road
Edison, NJ 08817
Tel 732.331.1310
Cell 973.879.3763
www.enterprisedb.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-
> owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Jim C. Nasby
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:52 PM
> To: Mike Ellsworth
> Cc: Josh Berkus; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Experts vs do-it-yourselfers
>
> On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:01:25AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote:
> > I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could
> > contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of effort. Would NOT
want
> > to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee.
> >
> > A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought.
>
> I think the time is probably right for some kind of alliance of the
> commercial players in PostgreSQL. I'm certainly in favor of it, at
least
> personally. I expect my employer would be as well.
> --
> Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com
> Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117
> vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461
>
> ---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org
OpenMFG would like to learn more. Is there an actual proposal here? Cheers, Ned -- Ned Lilly President and CEO OpenMFG, LLC 119 West York Street Norfolk, VA 23510 tel. 757.461.3022 x101 email: ned@openmfg.com www.openmfg.com Andy Astor wrote: > We would certainly join and contribute. > > -- Andy > > Andy Astor, CEO > EnterpriseDB Corporation > 777 New Durham Road > Edison, NJ 08817 > Tel 732.331.1310 > Cell 973.879.3763 > www.enterprisedb.com > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-advocacy- >>owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Jim C. Nasby >>Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:52 PM >>To: Mike Ellsworth >>Cc: Josh Berkus; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org >>Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Experts vs do-it-yourselfers >> >>On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:01:25AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote: >> >>>I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could >>>contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of effort. Would NOT > > want > >>>to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee. >>> >>>A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought. >> >>I think the time is probably right for some kind of alliance of the >>commercial players in PostgreSQL. I'm certainly in favor of it, at > > least > >>personally. I expect my employer would be as well. >>-- >>Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com >>Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117 >>vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461 >> >>---------------------------(end of > > broadcast)--------------------------- > >>TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? >> >> http://archives.postgresql.org > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? > > http://archives.postgresql.org > > >
I believe that it's an unwitten (but rigidly enforced) rule that the 1st one to use that 8 letter word is compelled to be the 1st submitter. :") Mike E. Ned Lilly wrote: > OpenMFG would like to learn more. Is there an actual proposal here? > > Cheers, > Ned >
we are interested in this proposal and want to know more about it. Regards Ewald Geschwinde Cybertec Jim C. Nasby wrote: >On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:01:25AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > > >>I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could >>contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of effort. Would NOT want >>to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee. >> >>A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought. >> >> > >I think the time is probably right for some kind of alliance of the >commercial players in PostgreSQL. I'm certainly in favor of it, at least >personally. I expect my employer would be as well. > >