Обсуждение: Advertising on the community blog
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 We recently had a job posting on planet.postgresql.org that was pretty much an advertisement for a certain company. I'd like clarification if job postings in general should be allowed or not. The only relevant part on the policy page at: http://planet.postgresql.org/policy.html seems to be: "Publishing of advertising in the syndicated part of your blog is not permitted" Thoughts? - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200912181214 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEAREDAAYFAksruGEACgkQvJuQZxSWSsgS9QCgkLEOOE08IkUIb5cLjdMSSAOO ocYAoKbWYHXb+ghxOtOpXkOMjX3IfIF5 =Ut0z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: [ There is text before PGP section. ] > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > > We recently had a job posting on planet.postgresql.org that > was pretty much an advertisement for a certain company. > I'd like clarification if job postings in general should > be allowed or not. The only relevant part on the policy > page at: > > http://planet.postgresql.org/policy.html > > seems to be: > > "Publishing of advertising in the syndicated part > of your blog is not permitted" > > Thoughts? I do not believe it is permitted, and I think the blog poster should have known that based on his experience with the community. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Greg Sabino Mullane <greg@turnstep.com> wrote: > We recently had a job posting on planet.postgresql.org that > was pretty much an advertisement for a certain company. > I'd like clarification if job postings in general should > be allowed or not. The only relevant part on the policy > page at: > > http://planet.postgresql.org/policy.html > > seems to be: > > "Publishing of advertising in the syndicated part > of your blog is not permitted" I believe I know which posting you're referring to, and I found it to be quite out of place on Planet PostgreSQL, but I can't speak for anyone else. ...Robert
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 17:16 +0000, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > > We recently had a job posting on planet.postgresql.org that > was pretty much an advertisement for a certain company. > I'd like clarification if job postings in general should > be allowed or not. The only relevant part on the policy > page at: > > http://planet.postgresql.org/policy.html > > seems to be: > > "Publishing of advertising in the syndicated part > of your blog is not permitted" I do not see the OmniTI (being coy about it is silly) posting by Theo as anything other than what it is, a job posting that is PostgreSQL related that talks about what the company is. It isn't like he said, For only 2500.00 you too can have a Remote DBA on your site. He said, "We are looking for a DBA, this is the OmniTI Culture, if you think you fit in, send me a resume." I find it completely reasonable and not in violation of the policy stated above. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > We recently had a job posting on planet.postgresql.org that > was pretty much an advertisement for a certain company. > I'd like clarification if job postings in general should > be allowed or not. The only relevant part on the policy > page at: I find the MySQL posts more out of place in Planet PostgreSQL than this one. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 17:16 +0000, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > Thoughts? I would remove the subcriber from planet. -- Devrim GÜNDÜZ, RHCE Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr http://www.gunduz.org Twitter: http://twitter.com/devrimgunduz
2009/12/18 Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>: > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 17:16 +0000, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: RIPEMD160 >> >> >> We recently had a job posting on planet.postgresql.org that >> was pretty much an advertisement for a certain company. >> I'd like clarification if job postings in general should >> be allowed or not. The only relevant part on the policy >> page at: >> >> http://planet.postgresql.org/policy.html >> >> seems to be: >> >> "Publishing of advertising in the syndicated part >> of your blog is not permitted" > > I do not see the OmniTI (being coy about it is silly) posting by Theo as > anything other than what it is, a job posting that is PostgreSQL related > that talks about what the company is. Well, we don't actually have a policy about posting for jobs on planet. In every other forum we have, it's frowned upon and people are told to post to pgsql-jobs. Maybe we need such a policy. But if we do, we first have to decide if we want job posts or not. So do we want that or not? That is one part of the question. The other one is to decide if you think it's a job post or advertising. It certainly *comes across* as advertising, but I don't think it was necessarily *intended* to be. I think it's pretty borderline, which is also pretty obvious from the very different opinions of the posters on this thread. -- Magnus HaganderMe: http://www.hagander.net/Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/
Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote: > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 17:16 +0000, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: >> Thoughts? > > I would remove the subcriber from planet. I think that would be quite an overreaction. I think that the blog post in question is certainly a bit of an advertisment but it is also interestingly written and contains some stuff about how databases are used in todays web environments. Also I think we had posts that were more annoying/missplacved than this one in the past - so I think a nice little email with "this was a kinda borderline post" might be appropriate but that's about it. Stefan
Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> writes:
> Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote:
>> I would remove the subcriber from planet.
> I think that would be quite an overreaction. I think that the blog post
> in question is certainly a bit of an advertisment but it is also
> interestingly written and contains some stuff about how databases are
> used in todays web environments.
> Also I think we had posts that were more annoying/missplacved than this
> one in the past - so I think a nice little email with "this was a kinda
> borderline post" might be appropriate but that's about it.
I agree with Stefan's thoughts here. Removal is surely an overreaction.
It's not even totally clear that the post was inappropriate.
regards, tom lane
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 19:11 +0100, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote: > > I would remove the subcriber from planet. > > I think that would be quite an overreaction. I disagree. If we won't apply rules, why do we write it? -- Devrim GÜNDÜZ, RHCE Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr http://www.gunduz.org Twitter: http://twitter.com/devrimgunduz
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 19:12 +0100, Magnus Hagander wrote: > > I do not see the OmniTI (being coy about it is silly) posting by Theo as > > anything other than what it is, a job posting that is PostgreSQL related > > that talks about what the company is. > > That is one part of the question. The other one is to decide if you > think it's a job post or advertising. It certainly *comes across* as > advertising, but I don't think it was necessarily *intended* to be. > Well I think my thoughts are pretty clear but I don't see this as advertising at all. I see it as a description of culture within a company that is posting a job opportunity. It doesn't read like advertising. It is all mindset and knowing Theo, he is sincere in his representation. I think it is true that the real question is, "do we allow job postings?" > I think it's pretty borderline, which is also pretty obvious from the > very different opinions of the posters on this thread. > The trend for blogs is that it is becoming the central point of communication for whoever is writing the blog. It is becoming increasingly common to have "company" or "project" blogs as well, where it is not singular but an aggregate of information. In short, blogging is becoming the nature of press releases, news, opinions etc... all in one. Exactly how many barriers are we going to put up for our community (Theo is a member of our Community and OmniTI is a sponsor) and sponsors to communicate? Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:1261160613.2715.1.camel@hp-laptop2.gunduz.org" type="cite"><pre wrap="">On Fri,2009-12-18 at 19:11 +0100, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote: </pre><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">Iwould remove the subcriber from planet. </pre></blockquote><pre wrap="">I think that would be quite an overreaction. </pre></blockquote><pre wrap=""> I disagree. If we won't apply rules, why do we write it? </pre></blockquote><br /> In some people's minds, "advertising"means you're trying to sell something, whereas Theo's trying to buy something (in this case, some future employee'ssoul). Now, a quick check of ye olde Merriam-Webster suggests advertising is "the action of calling somethingto the attention of the public..." which means that this is technically a violation, and a knee-jerk banning couldbe justified if you really wanted to be a jerk about it. But I think you need a clarification of policy in this fuzzyarea before you're justified in kicking people out for violating it.<br /><br /> Had there been an explicit policy againstsoliciting for a job, I'm sure the commentary about the changing role of the DBA--which is itself an interesting topicI enjoyed reading his thoughts about and completely appropriate for Planet distribution IMHO--would have been rewrittento be more general and just ended with suggesting OmniTI likes to work with such people instead.<br /><br /><preclass="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:greg@2ndQuadrant.com">greg@2ndQuadrant.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"href="http://www.2ndQuadrant.com">www.2ndQuadrant.com</a> </pre>
All, I don't actually have a problem with *that particular post* except that Theo should have used lead/link so that only the first paragraph appeared on Planet. However, I'm very concerned that setting a precedent of allowing want ads on Planet could cause a deluge of far less desirable posts. So I think we should make it a policy not to allow it in the future. --Josh Berkus
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 13:46 -0500, Greg Smith wrote: > Devrim GÃNDÃZ wrote: > > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 19:11 +0100, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote: > > > > > > I would remove the subcriber from planet. > > > > > > > I think that would be quite an overreaction. > > > > > > > I disagree. If we won't apply rules, why do we write it? > > > > In some people's minds, "advertising" means you're trying to sell > something, whereas Theo's trying to buy something (in this case, some > future employee's soul). Now, a quick check of ye olde > Merriam-Webster suggests advertising is "the action of calling > something to the attention of the public..." Following this, there is no posting allowed about PgCon, East, West, Tungsten, Postgres Plus, GridSQL, or PostgreSQL releases. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 10:47 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > All, > > I don't actually have a problem with *that particular post* except that > Theo should have used lead/link so that only the first paragraph > appeared on Planet. > Agreed, but that is something planet could enforce on its own as well. > However, I'm very concerned that setting a precedent of allowing want > ads on Planet could cause a deluge of far less desirable posts. So I > think we should make it a policy not to allow it in the future. I don't see that as a problem because you can't just "be a part of planet". It isn't a crawling aggregator. Joshua D. Drake > > --Josh Berkus > > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
2009/12/18 Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>: > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 10:47 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: >> All, >> >> I don't actually have a problem with *that particular post* except that >> Theo should have used lead/link so that only the first paragraph >> appeared on Planet. >> > > Agreed, but that is something planet could enforce on its own as well. It already does. It's just a matter of tuning the length, which has changed *many* times. If you look at the post, you'll see it is actually truncated. Perhaps it's truncated too late, but that's just the matter of a config parameter... -- Magnus HaganderMe: http://www.hagander.net/Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/
Josh Berkus wrote: > All, > > I don't actually have a problem with *that particular post* except that > Theo should have used lead/link so that only the first paragraph > appeared on Planet. Personally I hate the fact that I can't read the posts directly on planet. Being forced to open someone's blog means I normally skip that particular piece of junk and read what's published as a whole in the planet. Yes, it means I don't read you nor Fetter normally (maybe others) -- are you guys just trying to up your hit counts? But then maybe it's just me. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 16:09 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Personally I hate the fact that I can't read the posts directly on > planet. Then use http://planetpostgresql.org ;) -- Devrim GÜNDÜZ, RHCE Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr http://www.gunduz.org Twitter: http://twitter.com/devrimgunduz
> Personally I hate the fact that I can't read the posts directly on > planet. Being forced to open someone's blog means I normally skip that > particular piece of junk and read what's published as a whole in the > planet. Yes, it means I don't read you nor Fetter normally (maybe > others) -- are you guys just trying to up your hit counts? Whereas I would prefer it if all planet listings were just 4-8 lines with a link, so that I could scroll over the entries and only click through to the ones I wanted to read. It's an aggregator, not a blog itself. --Josh Berkus
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:20 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > > Personally I hate the fact that I can't read the posts directly on > > planet. Being forced to open someone's blog means I normally skip that > > particular piece of junk and read what's published as a whole in the > > planet. Yes, it means I don't read you nor Fetter normally (maybe > > others) -- are you guys just trying to up your hit counts? > > Whereas I would prefer it if all planet listings were just 4-8 lines > with a link, so that I could scroll over the entries and only click > through to the ones I wanted to read. It's an aggregator, not a blog > itself. Right. Joshua D. Drake > > --Josh Berkus > > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > >> Personally I hate the fact that I can't read the posts directly on >> planet. Being forced to open someone's blog means I normally skip that >> particular piece of junk and read what's published as a whole in the >> planet. Yes, it means I don't read you nor Fetter normally (maybe >> others) -- are you guys just trying to up your hit counts? > > Whereas I would prefer it if all planet listings were just 4-8 lines > with a link, so that I could scroll over the entries and only click > through to the ones I wanted to read. It's an aggregator, not a blog > itself. You're all free to write your own aggregation software that does this exactly the way that you want. :) The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. My vote is no, and I suggest that job postings be directed to pgsql-jobs. -selena -- http://chesnok.com/daily - me http://endpoint.com - work
Selena Deckelmann escribió: > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > My vote is no, and I suggest that job postings be directed to pgsql-jobs. Yeah, and interestingly nobody but you answered the question. Personally I have no problem with job postings assuming that the poster is already a planet-aggregated blogger. Getting a blog up just for posting a job offer should be frowned upon. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Selena Deckelmann escribi?: > > > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > > > My vote is no, and I suggest that job postings be directed to pgsql-jobs. > > Yeah, and interestingly nobody but you answered the question. I vote the blog posting was inappropriate too. > Personally I have no problem with job postings assuming that the poster > is already a planet-aggregated blogger. Getting a blog up just for > posting a job offer should be frowned upon. Uh, how would we police that? -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
> The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent set of acceptance rules. I think it's ok to have a link to a job post in a longer blog about something else. Mind you, Theo's post is still a grey area; it's a job post, but it's also other stuff. --Josh Berkus
Bruce Momjian escribió: > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > Personally I have no problem with job postings assuming that the poster > > is already a planet-aggregated blogger. Getting a blog up just for > > posting a job offer should be frowned upon. > > Uh, how would we police that? Well, that's a different question :-) -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > set of acceptance rules. My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 14:58 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > Selena Deckelmann escribi?: > > > > > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > > > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > > > > > My vote is no, and I suggest that job postings be directed to pgsql-jobs. > > > > Yeah, and interestingly nobody but you answered the question. > > I vote the blog posting was inappropriate too. Does that mean that the barrel of announcements that came out from PGX were also inappropriate? I don't recall those being an issue. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent >> set of acceptance rules. > > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. Nor I, as long as it's pg related. -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 14:58 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > > Selena Deckelmann escribi?: > > > > > > > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > > > > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > > > > > > > My vote is no, and I suggest that job postings be directed to pgsql-jobs. > > > > > > Yeah, and interestingly nobody but you answered the question. > > > > I vote the blog posting was inappropriate too. > > Does that mean that the barrel of announcements that came out from PGX > were also inappropriate? I don't recall those being an issue. If I remember correctly, they definitely were inappropriate, in fact so much so that we talked to the individuals privately and there was no need to discuss the issue on a public email list. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Dave Page wrote: > On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > >> > >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > >> set of acceptance rules. > > > > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. > > Nor I, as long as it's pg related. Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 21:27, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 14:58 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: >> Alvaro Herrera wrote: >> > Selena Deckelmann escribi?: >> > >> > > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to >> > > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. >> > > >> > > My vote is no, and I suggest that job postings be directed to pgsql-jobs. >> > >> > Yeah, and interestingly nobody but you answered the question. >> >> I vote the blog posting was inappropriate too. > > Does that mean that the barrel of announcements that came out from PGX > were also inappropriate? I don't recall those being an issue. They were. Some of them were removed, and the posters were asked to not do that again. The issue at the time was thta a lot of people posted basically the same thing. At the time, we said that had just one of them posted it, there would be no issue. It was just the flood that we took issue with at the time. -- Magnus HaganderMe: http://www.hagander.net/Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/
On 12/18/09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > Dave Page wrote: >> On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: >> >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want >> >> > to >> >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. >> >> >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent >> >> set of acceptance rules. >> > >> > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. >> >> Nor I, as long as it's pg related. > > Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately > be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. > I don't want to see recruiters there or anything like that, but i don't have a problem with *existing* bloggers posting a 'btw we're looking for a new dba' type posts. -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 20:52 +0000, Dave Page wrote: > On 12/18/09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > > Dave Page wrote: > >> On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > >> > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > >> >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want > >> >> > to > >> >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > >> >> > >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > >> >> set of acceptance rules. > >> > > >> > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. > >> > >> Nor I, as long as it's pg related. > > > > Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately > > be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. > > > > I don't want to see recruiters there or anything like that, but i > don't have a problem with *existing* bloggers posting a 'btw we're > looking for a new dba' type posts. > Agreed :) > > -- > Dave Page > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
Dave Page wrote: > On 12/18/09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > > Dave Page wrote: > >> On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > >> > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > >> >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want > >> >> > to > >> >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > >> >> > >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > >> >> set of acceptance rules. > >> > > >> > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. > >> > >> Nor I, as long as it's pg related. > > > > Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately > > be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. > > > > I don't want to see recruiters there or anything like that, but i > don't have a problem with *existing* bloggers posting a 'btw we're > looking for a new dba' type posts. How do you want to specify or enforce that? -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 16:00 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Dave Page wrote: > > On 12/18/09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > > > Dave Page wrote: > > >> On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > >> > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > > >> >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want > > >> >> > to > > >> >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > >> >> > > >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > > >> >> set of acceptance rules. > > >> > > > >> > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. > > >> > > >> Nor I, as long as it's pg related. > > > > > > Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately > > > be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. > > > > > > > I don't want to see recruiters there or anything like that, but i > > don't have a problem with *existing* bloggers posting a 'btw we're > > looking for a new dba' type posts. > > How do you want to specify or enforce that? When they sign up, they agree to a terms of service. If they fail within those terms we warn them, if the continue to fail, we kick them.... > > -- > Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us > EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com > > + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
2009/12/18 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>: > Dave Page wrote: >> On 12/18/09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: >> > Dave Page wrote: >> >> On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> >> > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: >> >> >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want >> >> >> > to >> >> >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. >> >> >> >> >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent >> >> >> set of acceptance rules. >> >> > >> >> > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. >> >> >> >> Nor I, as long as it's pg related. >> > >> > Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately >> > be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. >> > >> >> I don't want to see recruiters there or anything like that, but i >> don't have a problem with *existing* bloggers posting a 'btw we're >> looking for a new dba' type posts. > > How do you want to specify or enforce that? I think the reason people are seeing this article as being a gray area is because it had some interesting content apart from the employment solicitation. And that's a fair point - I found that part interesting too. But the subject line was "OmniTI seeks data management experts; a new type of DBA." I wouldn't necessarily object to "BTW, we're looking for a DBA", but this wasn't really by the way. It was the explicitly stated primary purpose of the post. A footnote at the bottom would be a different matter, perhaps. Anyway, I didn't object to the content, but I would have expected it to go through pgsql-jobs rather than planet. ...Robert
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 16:00 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Dave Page wrote: > > > On 12/18/09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > > > > Dave Page wrote: > > > >> On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > > >> > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > > > >> >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want > > > >> >> > to > > > >> >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > > > >> >> set of acceptance rules. > > > >> > > > > >> > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. > > > >> > > > >> Nor I, as long as it's pg related. > > > > > > > > Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately > > > > be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to see recruiters there or anything like that, but i > > > don't have a problem with *existing* bloggers posting a 'btw we're > > > looking for a new dba' type posts. > > > > How do you want to specify or enforce that? > > When they sign up, they agree to a terms of service. If they fail within > those terms we warn them, if the continue to fail, we kick them.... What are the terms? "If you post a lot you can post job opening announcements too"? What is a lot? -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
I wonder how hard is Theo laughing right now. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 18:08 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > I wonder how hard is Theo laughing right now. He problem has a vision of a bunch of people with their butts puckered as he slams his head down on a desk at the ridiculousness of this whole thread. Don't we have better things to do... it was one post people. Joshua D. Drake > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 17:16 +0000, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > > We recently had a job posting on planet.postgresql.org that > was pretty much an advertisement for a certain company. > I'd like clarification if job postings in general should > be allowed or not. The only relevant part on the policy > page at: > > http://planet.postgresql.org/policy.html > > seems to be: > > "Publishing of advertising in the syndicated part > of your blog is not permitted" I do not see the OmniTI (being coy about it is silly) posting by Theo as anything other than what it is, a job posting that is PostgreSQL related that talks about what the company is. It isn't like he said, For only 2500.00 you too can have a Remote DBA on your site. He said, "We are looking for a DBA, this is the OmniTI Culture, if you think you fit in, send me a resume." I find it completely reasonable and not in violation of the policy stated above. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 19:12 +0100, Magnus Hagander wrote: > > I do not see the OmniTI (being coy about it is silly) posting by Theo as > > anything other than what it is, a job posting that is PostgreSQL related > > that talks about what the company is. > > That is one part of the question. The other one is to decide if you > think it's a job post or advertising. It certainly *comes across* as > advertising, but I don't think it was necessarily *intended* to be. > Well I think my thoughts are pretty clear but I don't see this as advertising at all. I see it as a description of culture within a company that is posting a job opportunity. It doesn't read like advertising. It is all mindset and knowing Theo, he is sincere in his representation. I think it is true that the real question is, "do we allow job postings?" > I think it's pretty borderline, which is also pretty obvious from the > very different opinions of the posters on this thread. > The trend for blogs is that it is becoming the central point of communication for whoever is writing the blog. It is becoming increasingly common to have "company" or "project" blogs as well, where it is not singular but an aggregate of information. In short, blogging is becoming the nature of press releases, news, opinions etc... all in one. Exactly how many barriers are we going to put up for our community (Theo is a member of our Community and OmniTI is a sponsor) and sponsors to communicate? Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 13:46 -0500, Greg Smith wrote: > Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote: > > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 19:11 +0100, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote: > > > > > > I would remove the subcriber from planet. > > > > > > > I think that would be quite an overreaction. > > > > > > > I disagree. If we won't apply rules, why do we write it? > > > > In some people's minds, "advertising" means you're trying to sell > something, whereas Theo's trying to buy something (in this case, some > future employee's soul). Now, a quick check of ye olde > Merriam-Webster suggests advertising is "the action of calling > something to the attention of the public..." Following this, there is no posting allowed about PgCon, East, West, Tungsten, Postgres Plus, GridSQL, or PostgreSQL releases. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 10:47 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > All, > > I don't actually have a problem with *that particular post* except that > Theo should have used lead/link so that only the first paragraph > appeared on Planet. > Agreed, but that is something planet could enforce on its own as well. > However, I'm very concerned that setting a precedent of allowing want > ads on Planet could cause a deluge of far less desirable posts. So I > think we should make it a policy not to allow it in the future. I don't see that as a problem because you can't just "be a part of planet". It isn't a crawling aggregator. Joshua D. Drake > > --Josh Berkus > > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:20 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > > Personally I hate the fact that I can't read the posts directly on > > planet. Being forced to open someone's blog means I normally skip that > > particular piece of junk and read what's published as a whole in the > > planet. Yes, it means I don't read you nor Fetter normally (maybe > > others) -- are you guys just trying to up your hit counts? > > Whereas I would prefer it if all planet listings were just 4-8 lines > with a link, so that I could scroll over the entries and only click > through to the ones I wanted to read. It's an aggregator, not a blog > itself. Right. Joshua D. Drake > > --Josh Berkus > > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > set of acceptance rules. My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 14:58 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > Selena Deckelmann escribi?: > > > > > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want to > > > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > > > > > My vote is no, and I suggest that job postings be directed to pgsql-jobs. > > > > Yeah, and interestingly nobody but you answered the question. > > I vote the blog posting was inappropriate too. Does that mean that the barrel of announcements that came out from PGX were also inappropriate? I don't recall those being an issue. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 20:52 +0000, Dave Page wrote: > On 12/18/09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > > Dave Page wrote: > >> On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > >> > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > >> >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want > >> >> > to > >> >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > >> >> > >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > >> >> set of acceptance rules. > >> > > >> > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. > >> > >> Nor I, as long as it's pg related. > > > > Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately > > be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. > > > > I don't want to see recruiters there or anything like that, but i > don't have a problem with *existing* bloggers posting a 'btw we're > looking for a new dba' type posts. > Agreed :) > > -- > Dave Page > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 16:00 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Dave Page wrote: > > On 12/18/09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > > > Dave Page wrote: > > >> On 12/18/09, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > >> > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:59 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > > >> >> > The issue Magnus specifically asked about is whether or not we want > > >> >> > to > > >> >> > have job postings on planet.postgresql.org. > > >> >> > > >> >> I stated my opinion already -- no. It's too hard to have a consistent > > >> >> set of acceptance rules. > > >> > > > >> > My vote: I have no problem with a PostgreSQL Job post on planet. > > >> > > >> Nor I, as long as it's pg related. > > > > > > Are you saying every post that appears on pgsql-jobs could appropriately > > > be on our blog? If that is true, I want some way to filter them out. > > > > > > > I don't want to see recruiters there or anything like that, but i > > don't have a problem with *existing* bloggers posting a 'btw we're > > looking for a new dba' type posts. > > How do you want to specify or enforce that? When they sign up, they agree to a terms of service. If they fail within those terms we warn them, if the continue to fail, we kick them.... > > -- > Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us > EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com > > + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 18:08 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > I wonder how hard is Theo laughing right now. He problem has a vision of a bunch of people with their butts puckered as he slams his head down on a desk at the ridiculousness of this whole thread. Don't we have better things to do... it was one post people. Joshua D. Drake > -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
Alvaro Herrera wrote: > I wonder how hard is Theo laughing right now. > I know I find the Streisand Effect going on here pretty amusing. Does anybody *not* know they're hiring yet? Theo's mission, completely accomplished; those who objected to the whole thing, not so much. -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support greg@2ndQuadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 > I do not see the OmniTI (being coy about it is silly) posting > by Theo as anything other than what it is, a job posting that > is PostgreSQL related that talks about what the company is. It's not being coy, it's being tactful. By not naming names, the emphasis can be kept on the policy, not the post. > I find it completely reasonable and not in violation of > the policy stated above. Ok, thanks, this is more in line in what I was looking for. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200912190858 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEAREDAAYFAkss8XAACgkQvJuQZxSWSsiYnACfX8LY4j2bY1Cf7SY4DhwppGhD n4UAoJUkBiApCI+3Wm/AuRDgtOedi5Xk =q43g -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 > Whereas I would prefer it if all planet listings were just 4-8 lines > with a link, so that I could scroll over the entries and only click > through to the ones I wanted to read. It's an aggregator, not a blog > itself. We're so low volume that I can't really imagine this is an issue for anyone. Having job posting and press releases may change that volume of course. :) - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200912191028 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEAREDAAYFAkss8WYACgkQvJuQZxSWSsiM3QCg9H1EVvprDmwZYCXKnWbgziVJ 9mEAnA26elujQL3fdZEGS3a3uzQx8sPb =4hm1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 > I think the reason people are seeing this article as being a gray area > is because it had some interesting content apart from the employment > solicitation. And that's a fair point - I found that part interesting > too. But the subject line was "OmniTI seeks data management experts; > a new type of DBA." I wouldn't necessarily object to "BTW, we're > looking for a DBA", but this wasn't really by the way. It was the > explicitly stated primary purpose of the post. A footnote at the > bottom would be a different matter, perhaps. +1. For the record, they've been looking for a DBA for a long time, and Robert Treat has done a number of posts with just that technique. > Anyway, I didn't object to the content, but I would have expected it > to go through pgsql-jobs rather than planet. For the record, count me in the jobs go to pgsql-jobs camp as a future policy. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200912191107 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEAREDAAYFAkss+jcACgkQvJuQZxSWSshXOwCgpXgcYP6lT6vaPbKIyiS34wpU zrAAniJroL8PQ38gifQ+5sVhNBrqydW5 =0cpy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- [1876-1 greg@core 11:07:24 ~/Email/Postgres] edit blog_jobs_haas [1877-1 greg@core 11:07:56 ~/Email/Postgres] gs blog_jobs_haas You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for user: "Greg Sabino Mullane <greg@turnstep.com>" 1024-bit DSA key, ID 14964AC8, created 1999-03-01 File `blog_jobs_haas.asc' exists. Overwrite? (y/N) y [1878-1 greg@core 11:07:58 ~/Email/Postgres] cat blog_jobs_haas.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 > I think the reason people are seeing this article as being a gray area > is because it had some interesting content apart from the employment > solicitation. And that's a fair point - I found that part interesting > too. But the subject line was "OmniTI seeks data management experts; > a new type of DBA." I wouldn't necessarily object to "BTW, we're > looking for a DBA", but this wasn't really by the way. It was the > explicitly stated primary purpose of the post. A footnote at the > bottom would be a different matter, perhaps. +1. For the record, they've been looking for a DBA for a long time, and Robert Treat has done a number of posts with just that technique. > Anyway, I didn't object to the content, but I would have expected it > to go through pgsql-jobs rather than planet. Count me in the 'jobs go to pgsql-jobs' camp as a future policy. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200912191107 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEAREDAAYFAkss+l4ACgkQvJuQZxSWSsgVzgCdEAEKk2KhIrNk+BEz77z7TvGh MNUAnA4imcLYi3UZvZSwsC0+ST2QGA3s =jGSm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 > I know I find the Streisand Effect going on here pretty amusing. Does > anybody *not* know they're hiring yet? Theo's mission, completely > accomplished; those who objected to the whole thing, not so much. You realize this thread is on the -www list, right? If it has 1/1000 the reach and impact of the blogs, I'd be surprised. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200912190736 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEAREDAAYFAkssycAACgkQvJuQZxSWSshreQCfdRN2YpgZoE7eHCDZ8YyrsHUL GXwAoJyPzbtvW2Gxx0MCSmTnQtQZd/2L =BeVE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > You realize this thread is on the -www list, right? You realize I was being about as serious with that comment as Josh was recommending we include "PostgreSQL for Win" in the awards section, right? -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support greg@2ndQuadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.com