Обсуждение: launching new site

I'm of the opinion that we ought to launch the new site on or before the
PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.  I know a lot of people
would like to see several parts of the content updated before launch, but
I've sort of come to the conclusion that if we just reuse the existing
content, we're not making things any worse, and then people can get a hold of
the improvements we do have that much sooner.  To that end, I also think we
ought to switch to Omar's design as is.  No one seems to have the gumption to
kick around lukaczs design in regards to issues that were raised earlier,
while we have certainly have a least one person (Omar) working steadily with
that design.  What I would like to see is an application of Omar's latest
work (I believe Omar and/or Gavin will have a patch available soon) so that
we can put that up on wwwmaster and have people do some beta testing of it.
I'm currently working on an update of the TODO list with a more definitive
list of things that need to be done, which I should have ready tommorrow, but
if we keep pushing forward I think we can get this thing out the door along
with 8.0.  Any objections?

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Robert Treat wrote:

> I'm of the opinion that we ought to launch the new site on or before the
> PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.  I know a lot of people
> would like to see several parts of the content updated before launch, but
> I've sort of come to the conclusion that if we just reuse the existing
> content, we're not making things any worse, and then people can get a hold of
> the improvements we do have that much sooner.  To that end, I also think we
> ought to switch to Omar's design as is.  No one seems to have the gumption to
> kick around lukaczs design in regards to issues that were raised earlier,
> while we have certainly have a least one person (Omar) working steadily with
> that design.  What I would like to see is an application of Omar's latest
> work (I believe Omar and/or Gavin will have a patch available soon) so that
> we can put that up on wwwmaster and have people do some beta testing of it.
> I'm currently working on an update of the TODO list with a more definitive
> list of things that need to be done, which I should have ready tommorrow, but
> if we keep pushing forward I think we can get this thing out the door along
> with 8.0.  Any objections?

You can access Omar's latest code using subversion:

svn co http://postgresql.tinysofa.com/svn/trunk

Because of the images additions/changes  which don't lend themselves to diff -c
format, I recommend allowing Omar to check in the changes directly to CVS
on gborg. I don't see any problems with that approach, because it can
always be rolled back. Omar tells me that he is already registered, with
username 'omar'.

I'd assist but I will be in Japan with limited internet access.

Thoughts?

Gavin

Hi,

Robert Treat wrote:
> I'm of the opinion that we ought to launch the new site on or before the
> PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.  I know a lot of people
> would like to see several parts of the content updated before launch, but
> I've sort of come to the conclusion that if we just reuse the existing
> content, we're not making things any worse, and then people can get a hold of
> the improvements we do have that much sooner.

Agree here.

> To that end, I also think we
> ought to switch to Omar's design as is.  No one seems to have the gumption to
> kick around lukaczs design in regards to issues that were raised earlier,
> while we have certainly have a least one person (Omar) working steadily with
> that design.  What I would like to see is an application of Omar's latest
> work (I believe Omar and/or Gavin will have a patch available soon) so that
> we can put that up on wwwmaster and have people do some beta testing of it.

That's a nice way to convince people: "either you take our design as is or you
don't get any content updates".

Another question is: should I move to Australia before I'll be able to continue
participating in new website development?

Please note, that doesn't mean I don't like the new design, it is definitely
good. I just don't quite like the way its development is going.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Robert Treat
> Sent: 06 December 2004 06:01
> To: pgsql-www@postgresql.org
> Subject: [pgsql-www] launching new site
>
> Any
> objections?

Only those I've raised already about junking Lukasz' design, but I'll go
with the concencus on that one.

I should hopefully have the infrastructure ready to go later today -
then switching over should be a simple config change.

Regards, Dave.

On Monday 06 December 2004 03:04, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> > To that end, I also think we
> > ought to switch to Omar's design as is.  No one seems to have the
> > gumption to kick around lukaczs design in regards to issues that were
> > raised earlier, while we have certainly have a least one person (Omar)
> > working steadily with that design.  What I would like to see is an
> > application of Omar's latest work (I believe Omar and/or Gavin will have
> > a patch available soon) so that we can put that up on wwwmaster and have
> > people do some beta testing of it.
>
> That's a nice way to convince people: "either you take our design as is or
> you don't get any content updates".
>

Not at all.  We have already recieved some content updates from Omar, and we
have all of Omar's current code from his SVN repository. If someone wants to
take his content changes and fit them in to the current design, we can do
that.  I don't, since I know there are issues with the current design
regarding sub-navigation that I don't want to deal with (and apparently no
one else does either) given that those issues go away with Omar's design.

> Another question is: should I move to Australia before I'll be able to
> continue participating in new website development?
>

I'm not sure I understand the above, but FWIW I've always wanted to move to
Australia if people are putting relocation packages together ;-)

> Please note, that doesn't mean I don't like the new design, it is
> definitely good. I just don't quite like the way its development is going.

I'm scared to ask for specifics :-)

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

On December 6, 2004 03:04 am, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Robert Treat wrote:
> > I'm of the opinion that we ought to launch the new site on or before the
> > PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.  I know a lot of
> > people would like to see several parts of the content updated before
> > launch, but I've sort of come to the conclusion that if we just reuse the
> > existing content, we're not making things any worse, and then people can
> > get a hold of the improvements we do have that much sooner.
>
> Agree here.
>

get it out the door

Robert Bernier wrote:
> On December 6, 2004 03:04 am, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>>Robert Treat wrote:
>>>I'm of the opinion that we ought to launch the new site on or before the
>>>PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.
<snip>
>>Agree here.
>
> get it out the door

Agreed here as well.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

Robert,

> I'm of the opinion that we ought to launch the new site on or before the
> PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.

I don't think you need to ask my opinion on this.  ;-)

Please identify for me any areas where you can use additional text content on
the TODO.  I'm going to be pretty useless on marking stuff up, but I can
still write.

> Please note, that doesn't mean I don't like the new design, it is
> definitely good. I just don't quite like the way its development is going.

Alexey, you're *never* happy.

--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

Hi,

Josh Berkus wrote:
>>Please note, that doesn't mean I don't like the new design, it is
>>definitely good. I just don't quite like the way its development is going.
>
> Alexey, you're *never* happy.

You just don't know me long enough. ;

In fact I promise to be extremely happy when the new site is finally online.

Hi,

Robert Treat wrote:
>>That's a nice way to convince people: "either you take our design as is or
>>you don't get any content updates".
>
> Not at all.  We have already recieved some content updates from Omar, and we
> have all of Omar's current code from his SVN repository. If someone wants to
> take his content changes and fit them in to the current design, we can do
> that.

Yes, and given the history of web team's enthusiasm for such tasks I'd guess
that no one will ever do that.

So we have a de-facto design which was not "accepted" by the vote.

> I don't, since I know there are issues with the current design
> regarding sub-navigation that I don't want to deal with (and apparently no
> one else does either) given that those issues go away with Omar's design.

OK, where are these issues documented? We have an issue tracker @ gborg:
http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/pgweb/task/tasklist.php
and we have a todo page on dev. version of site:
http://wwwmaster.postgresql.org/todo


>>Another question is: should I move to Australia before I'll be able to
>>continue participating in new website development?
>
> I'm not sure I understand the above, but FWIW I've always wanted to move to
> Australia if people are putting relocation packages together ;-)

I meant that some effort was put into making the website development more open
to the public. But right now we are having a closed development process again,
only that was closed by a different group of people. Where is the discussion
going? What is the current todo list?

>
>
> Agreed here as well.

Agreed, lets get it up.

>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift
>
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On Monday 06 December 2004 15:10, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Robert Treat wrote:
> >>That's a nice way to convince people: "either you take our design as is
> >> or you don't get any content updates".
> >
> > Not at all.  We have already recieved some content updates from Omar, and
> > we have all of Omar's current code from his SVN repository. If someone
> > wants to take his content changes and fit them in to the current design,
> > we can do that.
>
> Yes, and given the history of web team's enthusiasm for such tasks I'd
> guess that no one will ever do that.
>
> So we have a de-facto design which was not "accepted" by the vote.
>

Well, we can have an official vote if you'd like.  IMHO not everything needs
an official vote. In most cases discussion will lead to a consensus.

> > I don't, since I know there are issues with the current design
> > regarding sub-navigation that I don't want to deal with (and apparently
> > no one else does either) given that those issues go away with Omar's
> > design.
>
> OK, where are these issues documented? We have an issue tracker @ gborg:
> http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/pgweb/task/tasklist.php
> and we have a todo page on dev. version of site:
> http://wwwmaster.postgresql.org/todo
>

see this lists's archives.  The main things centered around having left nav
and dropping right nav in sub pages.

> >>Another question is: should I move to Australia before I'll be able to
> >>continue participating in new website development?
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand the above, but FWIW I've always wanted to move
> > to Australia if people are putting relocation packages together ;-)
>
> I meant that some effort was put into making the website development more
> open to the public. But right now we are having a closed development
> process again, only that was closed by a different group of people. Where
> is the discussion going? What is the current todo list?

I'm not following you.  Discussion takes place here on the list.  Granted
there may be the occasional conversation between two people on private email
or irc, but nothing is committed before it is brought up here. (At least I
don't commit anything without bringing it up here)  The todo list is still
valid, just a little behind the times, I hope to update that tonight, but it
won't be earth shattering, just adding things like "Content for section XYZ
is missing" and it's ilk.

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL