Обсуждение: Antw: Re: File for /src/backend/port/netware

Hi Tom,

i've worked on the OS specific stuff to reduce and consolidate it.
I've switched to use a compressed MetroWerks project file and
i've removed everything that isn't really neccessary.

It looks much better now I think and I hope you like it.

Is it possible that I can maintain the Netware specific stuff so you
don't
have to worry about these files?

best regards

Ulrich

>>> Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> 15.08.2002 00:41:25 >>>
"Ulrich Neumann" <U_Neumann@gne.de> writes:
> [ 1.5 megabytes of Netware-specific stuff to be added to the ports
> directory ]

This seems a quite unreasonably large amount of stuff to expect us to
maintain for one port.  Especially when half of it is a binary file
that we won't even be able to read, much less maintain.

Perhaps it's time to give up the notion that Netware is a reasonable
platform for us to consider supporting.

            regards, tom lane

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Ulrich Neumann wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> i've worked on the OS specific stuff to reduce and consolidate it.
> I've switched to use a compressed MetroWerks project file and
> i've removed everything that isn't really necessary.
>
> It looks much better now I think and I hope you like it.
>
> Is it possible that I can maintain the Netware specific stuff so you
> don't
> have to worry about these files?

I looked at this zip file and I don't understand it.  Are these files in
addition to the patches you already submitted?  I don't see any patches
in the zip file.  I want to go back over you submissions and get one big
patch so we can see where to go.

As for you maintaining it, sure you can do that as a separate tarball
that fits over top our existing tarball, or you can apply your patches
and ship your own tarball with no restrictions whatsoever.  We can even
mix it, where a few of your patches are in our code, just to make sure
any code drift tracks your #ifdef's, and you can add files and
distribute your own tarball.  Sometimes, for early ports, it is easier
to distribute your own tarball because you can make adjustments
independent of our release cycle.

--
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Hi Bruce,

thanks for your answer.

The zip file contains only the files that needs to be placed in
/src/backend/port/netware.
There is nothing in it that needs to be placed elsewhere.

(Apache has just the zip file in the NetWare specific file and that's
it. Everybody who
wants to compile Apache needs to unpack the archive first)

I'm also working on the C libraries on NetWare and my plan is to add
everything that's
neccessary for Postgres to the standard C library so that I can reduce
the NetWare
specific stuff over the time.

The other patches are changes to other files, but only very small ones.
For the moment
that's all that is neccessary to compile it and to get the databse and
most interfaces, PSQL,
pg_dump and so on working on NetWare.

At the moment I have a project at Sourceforge where I let others
download tarballs.
Starting in september there we want to have links on Novells website
where people can
find the sources of PostgreSQL and Novell want to provide a binary
package of PostgreSQL.

My idea was to submit the code as soon as PostgreSQL is running on
NetWare and
from that point on I want to contribute to Postgres at all. I regulary
check the ToDo
List and I want to help there. This same Novell is doing with other
open source
projects. They have dedicated people who works only on one specific
open source
project and my place is PostgreSQL.


best regards

Ulrich
>>> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> 15.08.2002 15:48:13 >>>
Ulrich Neumann wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> i've worked on the OS specific stuff to reduce and consolidate it.
> I've switched to use a compressed MetroWerks project file and
> i've removed everything that isn't really necessary.
>
> It looks much better now I think and I hope you like it.
>
> Is it possible that I can maintain the Netware specific stuff so you
> don't
> have to worry about these files?

I looked at this zip file and I don't understand it.  Are these files
in
addition to the patches you already submitted?  I don't see any
patches
in the zip file.  I want to go back over you submissions and get one
big
patch so we can see where to go.

As for you maintaining it, sure you can do that as a separate tarball
that fits over top our existing tarball, or you can apply your patches
and ship your own tarball with no restrictions whatsoever.  We can
even
mix it, where a few of your patches are in our code, just to make sure
any code drift tracks your #ifdef's, and you can add files and
distribute your own tarball.  Sometimes, for early ports, it is easier
to distribute your own tarball because you can make adjustments
independent of our release cycle.

--
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania
19073

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Peter, Tom,

good point to mention GNU. GNU is able to build NetWare binaries.

I'll move everything to GNU now (why didn't I get this idea by
myself?)
so I can use the available makefiles.

Give me some time and I'll come back with another way to build
PostgreSQL on NetWare.

Ulrich

>>> Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> 15.08.2002 19:47:14 >>>
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
> This isn't a port anymore, it's almost an alternative implementation.
 The
> maintenance headaches are severe.  If we installed your files today,
they
> would be outdated next week guaranteed.

My thought also.  The problem with an 800K port directory is not just
that it bloats the distribution, it's that those files have to be kept
in sync with the rest of the system.  A local copy of pg_config.h,
for example, is just plain foolish.  All of the .def and .imp files
are maintenance problems waiting to happen, too.  (Can't these be made
on-the-fly during build, instead of being source files we have to
maintain?)  And zipping the .mcp file doesn't alter my objection to it
one bit, just makes it even *less* like an editable source file.

The most recent version of the patch is noticeably cleaner than the
one
before, but still it's a maintenance nightmare...

> I suggest you start looking for Netware ports of GNU make, a POSIX
shell,
> and related utilities.  Then many things should fall into place.

If you don't have GNU make and a shell, I don't think it's reasonable
to
try to run Postgres.  There are just too many places that you'd have
to
duplicate code.

            regards, tom lane
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OK, I will discard the previous patches you sent me and wait for a new
megapatch.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ulrich Neumann wrote:
> Peter, Tom,
>
> good point to mention GNU. GNU is able to build NetWare binaries.
>
> I'll move everything to GNU now (why didn't I get this idea by
> myself?)
> so I can use the available makefiles.
>
> Give me some time and I'll come back with another way to build
> PostgreSQL on NetWare.
>
> Ulrich
>
> >>> Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> 15.08.2002 19:47:14 >>>
> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
> > This isn't a port anymore, it's almost an alternative implementation.
>  The
> > maintenance headaches are severe.  If we installed your files today,
> they
> > would be outdated next week guaranteed.
>
> My thought also.  The problem with an 800K port directory is not just
> that it bloats the distribution, it's that those files have to be kept
> in sync with the rest of the system.  A local copy of pg_config.h,
> for example, is just plain foolish.  All of the .def and .imp files
> are maintenance problems waiting to happen, too.  (Can't these be made
> on-the-fly during build, instead of being source files we have to
> maintain?)  And zipping the .mcp file doesn't alter my objection to it
> one bit, just makes it even *less* like an editable source file.
>
> The most recent version of the patch is noticeably cleaner than the
> one
> before, but still it's a maintenance nightmare...
>
> > I suggest you start looking for Netware ports of GNU make, a POSIX
> shell,
> > and related utilities.  Then many things should fall into place.
>
> If you don't have GNU make and a shell, I don't think it's reasonable
> to
> try to run Postgres.  There are just too many places that you'd have
> to
> duplicate code.
>
>             regards, tom lane
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--
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

> I'm also working on the C libraries on NetWare and my plan is to add
> everything that's
> neccessary for Postgres to the standard C library so that I can reduce
> the NetWare
> specific stuff over the time.

Our of interested, why doesn't Novell just rip off the FreeBSD libc for
Netware?  Seems like it'd be a lot less work that writing one from
scratch...

Chris

For the standard API's we've used the UI code (Maybe you didn't know
that Novell bought AT&T UNIX in the mit 90th) and several BSD code,
but this isn't possible in every case. Especially everything that
deals
with processes and threads is different in the underlying kernel.

At the moment a complete new OS is on the way and LibC on NetWare is a
migration path to prepare applications that they only need a
recompile.

This new OS ist based on a nano Kernel with differnt VM Kernels. Then
you'll
see a POSIX VM kernel, a JAVA VM kernel, ...

I'm sure you'll hear about this OS as soon as it is released, but it
will take us
a while.

Ulrich
>>> "Christopher Kings-Lynne" <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au> 16.08.2002
03:39:30 >>>
> I'm also working on the C libraries on NetWare and my plan is to add
> everything that's
> neccessary for Postgres to the standard C library so that I can
reduce
> the NetWare
> specific stuff over the time.

Our of interested, why doesn't Novell just rip off the FreeBSD libc
for
Netware?  Seems like it'd be a lot less work that writing one from
scratch...

Chris

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