Обсуждение: Help me improve the 9.1 release draft
PG fans, http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft Clearly this needs some work, and wordsmithing. I do want to keep the focus of the release on the features, because we havekiller features this release. Also the theme of "Features, Innovation, Extensibility". So, improvements? -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com San Francisco
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Joshua Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > PG fans, > > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft > > Clearly this needs some work, and wordsmithing. I do want to keep the focus of the release on the features, because wehave killer features this release. Also the theme of "Features, Innovation, Extensibility". I'm no marketing guy, so take this with a large grain of salt or ignore entirely. I think the first paragraph could be improved to emphasize, as you say, the "killer features". This bit: | This latest release of the leading open source database contains more | new features than any previous version, each of which are compelling | reasons to adopt PostgreSQL seems too much like hand-wavy-marketing-speak. I think it'd be better if it were more like the first paragraph of the 9.0 release notes[1]. Maybe something like "This latest release contains many significant new features aimed at enhancing reliability, performance, and SQL Standard compliance. Users are particularly excited about synchronous replication and [other cool features]." And then maybe this sentence could be axed, or perhaps moved to the end; it doesn't seem important enough to emphasize in the first paragraph: | In PostgreSQL's 25th year of database development, our community | continues to introduce new innovations with every annual release. Josh -- [1] http://www.postgresql.org/about/press/presskit90.html.en
> seems too much like hand-wavy-marketing-speak. I think it'd be better > if it were more like the first paragraph of the 9.0 release notes[1]. > Maybe something like "This latest release contains many significant > new features aimed at enhancing reliability, performance, and SQL > Standard compliance. Users are particularly excited about synchronous > replication and [other cool features]." Hmmm, I'd like to keep it down to categories because we don't want to list all 9 features in a sentence. I also like the "more new features" because I want to hammer it in to people that we're not sitting still and letting the NoSQL guys to all the innovation. Let me try .... "This latest release contains more new features than any prior release of PostgreSQL, enhancing scalability and security, as well as adding new use cases for the database." Needs help, but can you see what I'm driving for? > And then maybe this sentence could be axed, or perhaps moved to the > end; it doesn't seem important enough to emphasize in the first > paragraph: > > | In PostgreSQL's 25th year of database development, our community > | continues to introduce new innovations with every annual release. Move to end I think. Thanks! Like I said, the release does need help. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > Hmmm, I'd like to keep it down to categories because we don't want to > list all 9 features in a sentence. I also like the "more new features" > because I want to hammer it in to people that we're not sitting still > and letting the NoSQL guys to all the innovation. Let me try .... > > "This latest release contains more new features than any prior release > of PostgreSQL, enhancing scalability and security, as well as adding new > use cases for the database." > > Needs help, but can you see what I'm driving for? Yeah, and that is better than the original IMO. It would be nice to have that introduction neatly tie together all the new features with a single theme -- something more substantive than "enhancing scalability and security" -- but given that we're talking about 9 or so basically unrelated major features, that's kind of hard to do. Now, maybe the bullet points could do a bit better conveying the appeal/use-case/awesomeness of the features. I think some of John Wang's suggested changes downthread are along these lines. Josh
I made a few initial edits to the 9.1 press release which can be seen here:
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft
As mentioned by Josh, one of my goals is to explain how the features can benefit users so that:
(a) existing users needing and waiting for features will want to upgrade
(b) existing and new users may see new features they want to try out
I agree it would be nice to have a unifying theme as well so there is more to do.
Please review and let me know what you think.
John
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft
As mentioned by Josh, one of my goals is to explain how the features can benefit users so that:
(a) existing users needing and waiting for features will want to upgrade
(b) existing and new users may see new features they want to try out
I agree it would be nice to have a unifying theme as well so there is more to do.
Please review and let me know what you think.
John
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Josh Kupershmidt <schmiddy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:Yeah, and that is better than the original IMO. It would be nice to
> Hmmm, I'd like to keep it down to categories because we don't want to
> list all 9 features in a sentence. I also like the "more new features"
> because I want to hammer it in to people that we're not sitting still
> and letting the NoSQL guys to all the innovation. Let me try ....
>
> "This latest release contains more new features than any prior release
> of PostgreSQL, enhancing scalability and security, as well as adding new
> use cases for the database."
>
> Needs help, but can you see what I'm driving for?
have that introduction neatly tie together all the new features with a
single theme -- something more substantive than "enhancing scalability
and security" -- but given that we're talking about 9 or so basically
unrelated major features, that's kind of hard to do.
Now, maybe the bullet points could do a bit better conveying the
appeal/use-case/awesomeness of the features. I think some of John
Wang's suggested changes downthread are along these lines.
Josh
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On 8/24/11 9:56 AM, John Wang wrote: > I made a few initial edits to the 9.1 press release which can be seen here: > > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft > > As mentioned by Josh, one of my goals is to explain how the features can > benefit users so that: > > (a) existing users needing and waiting for features will want to upgrade > (b) existing and new users may see new features they want to try out > > I agree it would be nice to have a unifying theme as well so there is more > to do. Thanks! Hmmm ... looking at a lot of your descriptions, I think they belong on the "extended release". Thing is, the official press release needs to fit into a page and a half of text. Lemme rearrange and you can see what I'm talking about. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com
John, Josh, everyone: Here's a considerably expanded and improved 9.1 release: http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft I'd like to get this to the translators in the next 48 hours, so please send me last-minute corrections! -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com
On ons, 2011-08-24 at 17:00 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: > John, Josh, everyone: > > Here's a considerably expanded and improved 9.1 release: > > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft > > I'd like to get this to the translators in the next 48 hours, so please > send me last-minute corrections! This looks a bit funny: """ Linguistic Sorting using Collations: Improve multilingual (M17n) correctness and user-friendliness with proper and consistent linguistic sorting rules. PostgreSQL linguistic sort supports monolingual and multilingual text and is often requested for sorting of diacritics. Sorting can be performed using language/locale-specific rules or using UTF-8 for multilingual sorting. For flexibility, collations can be set on columns, domains, indexes and expressions. """ I don't know how one would get from "multilingual" to "M17n". Also, we don't support "multilingual text", which is text that consists of multiple languages(?). Also, you can't sort "using UTF-8". Actually, the only thing that's new is the last sentence. Everything before that is nonsense and/or not actually new. Btw., the release announcement ought to contain a link to the full release notes.
Am Donnerstag, den 25.08.2011, 16:47 +0300 schrieb Peter Eisentraut: > On ons, 2011-08-24 at 17:00 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: > > Here's a considerably expanded and improved 9.1 release: > > > > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft > > > > I'd like to get this to the translators in the next 48 hours, so please > > send me last-minute corrections! > > This looks a bit funny: > > """ > Linguistic Sorting using Collations: Improve multilingual (M17n) > correctness and user-friendliness with proper and consistent linguistic > sorting rules. PostgreSQL linguistic sort supports monolingual and > multilingual text and is often requested for sorting of diacritics. > Sorting can be performed using language/locale-specific rules or using > UTF-8 for multilingual sorting. For flexibility, collations can be set > on columns, domains, indexes and expressions. > """ > > I don't know how one would get from "multilingual" to "M17n". Also, we > don't support "multilingual text", which is text that consists of > multiple languages(?). Also, you can't sort "using UTF-8". Heh, I wondered the same and pointed that out to Josh on IRC earlier today. M17n expands to "Multilingualization"; I do not think that is a common enough expansion that people won't think "how do they get from multilingual to m17n??", so either adding that in parenthesis, or just using that instead of "multililngual" (if grammar allows) would be better IMO. Whether or not it is applicable at all is another matter, of course. Michael -- Michael Banck Tel.: +49 (0) 2161 / 4643-171 credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080 Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz
I'm still learning about this feature but wanted to put up some information for discussion.
In the official Pg press release, the feature is still called "Per-Column Collations." Is this common enough of a term that people will know what benefit they will derive? As a counterpoint, Oracle has a chapter in their Globalization (G11n) guide titled "Linguistic Sorting" which goes into detail on how linguistic sorting is done; however, it only mentions "collated" once. Is this a valid comparison?
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B10500_01/server.920/a96529/ch4.htm#1008649
The guide talks about both monolingual and multilingual linguistic sorts. Sorting on Unicode is considered monolingual. Language-specific sorting is available as both mono- and multilingual. Multilingual sorting (e.g. FRENCH_M vs FRENCH) uses the ISO 14651 multilingual standard.
From the discussion, my impression is that the Pg feature provides monolingual, language/locale-specific (non-Unicode) sorting. Is any other benefit provided?
So two items:
(1) Would the feature be better listed as "Per-Column Collations" or "Linguistic Sorting"
(2) Is the primary benefit monolingual, language/locale-specific sorting.
John
In the official Pg press release, the feature is still called "Per-Column Collations." Is this common enough of a term that people will know what benefit they will derive? As a counterpoint, Oracle has a chapter in their Globalization (G11n) guide titled "Linguistic Sorting" which goes into detail on how linguistic sorting is done; however, it only mentions "collated" once. Is this a valid comparison?
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B10500_01/server.920/a96529/ch4.htm#1008649
The guide talks about both monolingual and multilingual linguistic sorts. Sorting on Unicode is considered monolingual. Language-specific sorting is available as both mono- and multilingual. Multilingual sorting (e.g. FRENCH_M vs FRENCH) uses the ISO 14651 multilingual standard.
From the discussion, my impression is that the Pg feature provides monolingual, language/locale-specific (non-Unicode) sorting. Is any other benefit provided?
So two items:
(1) Would the feature be better listed as "Per-Column Collations" or "Linguistic Sorting"
(2) Is the primary benefit monolingual, language/locale-specific sorting.
John
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Michael Banck <michael.banck@credativ.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 25.08.2011, 16:47 +0300 schrieb Peter Eisentraut:> On ons, 2011-08-24 at 17:00 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:> > Here's a considerably expanded and improved 9.1 release:Heh, I wondered the same and pointed that out to Josh on IRC earlier
> >
> > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft
> >
> > I'd like to get this to the translators in the next 48 hours, so please
> > send me last-minute corrections!
>
> This looks a bit funny:
>
> """
> Linguistic Sorting using Collations: Improve multilingual (M17n)
> correctness and user-friendliness with proper and consistent linguistic
> sorting rules. PostgreSQL linguistic sort supports monolingual and
> multilingual text and is often requested for sorting of diacritics.
> Sorting can be performed using language/locale-specific rules or using
> UTF-8 for multilingual sorting. For flexibility, collations can be set
> on columns, domains, indexes and expressions.
> """
>
> I don't know how one would get from "multilingual" to "M17n". Also, we
> don't support "multilingual text", which is text that consists of
> multiple languages(?). Also, you can't sort "using UTF-8".
today.
M17n expands to "Multilingualization"; I do not think that is a common
enough expansion that people won't think "how do they get from
multilingual to m17n??", so either adding that in parenthesis, or just
using that instead of "multililngual" (if grammar allows) would be
better IMO.
Whether or not it is applicable at all is another matter, of course.
Michael
--
Michael Banck
Tel.: +49 (0) 2161 / 4643-171
credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080
Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach
Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz
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On tor, 2011-08-25 at 11:27 -0700, John Wang wrote: > (1) Would the feature be better listed as "Per-Column Collations" or > "Linguistic Sorting" > > (2) Is the primary benefit monolingual, language/locale-specific > sorting. You can already do locale-specific sorting. The only new thing is that you can configure it per column, and per domain, index, or expression, as the press release says.
All, Removed industry buzzwords. Replaced text with: * '''Per-column Collations:''' Our robust and standards-compliant multi-encoding support now allows users to set the collation for strings on a single column. This permits true multi-lingual databases, where each text column is a different language, and indexes and sorts correctly for that language. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com
On tor, 2011-08-25 at 17:15 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: > All, > > Removed industry buzzwords. Replaced text with: > > * '''Per-column Collations:''' Our robust and standards-compliant > multi-encoding support now allows users to set the collation for strings > on a single column. This permits true multi-lingual databases, where > each text column is a different language, and indexes and sorts > correctly for that language. The stuff about encoding support is not relevant to the feature (and it's also wrong). How about just * '''Per-column Collations:''' PostgreSQL now allows users to set the collation for strings on a single column. This permits true multi-lingual databases, where each text column is a different language, and indexes and sorts correctly for that language.
On 08/24/2011 08:00 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: > Here's a considerably expanded and improved 9.1 release: > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft > This is looking good now, I just did a round of carefully polishing the short version, details e-mailed. The longer version had less things I wanted to adjust. One last minute idea, not sure how close you are to the target length for this e-mail. If there's some space left, I think it would be nice to mention PostGIS here. We could trot that out to show that the extensions model enhanced by 9.1 is both powerful and mature. Pointing out that you can turn PostgreSQL into a spatial database with an extension really makes that obvious. Here's some new text to try and capture this, my idea would be to beef up either the intro or end of the "Extending the Database Engine" section. PostgreSQL's powerful extensibility features have always enabled feature development on top of the core database. The PostGIS project is a successful example, adding industry leading spatial data capabilities to PostgreSQL. The new Extensions feature makes it easier than ever to build new features into the database with this proven approach. -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US greg@2ndQuadrant.com Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services, and 24x7 Support www.2ndQuadrant.us
Il 26/08/11 08:51, Greg Smith ha scritto: > PostgreSQL's powerful extensibility features have always enabled > feature development on top of the core database. The PostGIS project > is a successful example, adding industry leading spatial data > capabilities to PostgreSQL. The new Extensions feature makes it > easier than ever to build new features into the database with this > proven approach. > My 2 cents here. Not only to build, but to maintain as well - from the DBA point of view. -- Gabriele Bartolini - 2ndQuadrant Italia PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support gabriele.bartolini@2ndQuadrant.it | www.2ndQuadrant.it
> PostgreSQL's powerful extensibility features have always enabled feature > development on top of the core database. The PostGIS project is a > successful example, adding industry leading spatial data capabilities to > PostgreSQL. The new Extensions feature makes it easier than ever to > build new features into the database with this proven approach. Hmmm, good hedging. I was reluctant to mention PostGIS since support for 9.1 in PostGIS is ~~ 6 months away. But the above quote doesn't imply that it's immediately available. Will work it in. Thanks! -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com
On Friday, August 26, 2011, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>
>> PostgreSQL's powerful extensibility features have always enabled feature
>> development on top of the core database. The PostGIS project is a
>> successful example, adding industry leading spatial data capabilities to
>> PostgreSQL. The new Extensions feature makes it easier than ever to
>> build new features into the database with this proven approach.
>
> Hmmm, good hedging. I was reluctant to mention PostGIS since support
> for 9.1 in PostGIS is ~~ 6 months away. But the above quote doesn't
> imply that it's immediately available. Will work it in.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Josh Berkus
> PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
> http://pgexperts.com
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org)
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>
Should the release notes really mention fdw being able pull from twitter? That seems about as relevant to most reader as updates in the lolcode pl. Perhaps language like "and even twitter" would be more ideal.
--
Rob Wultsch
wultsch@gmail.com
> Should the release notes really mention fdw being able pull from > twitter? That seems about as relevant to most reader as updates in > the lolcode pl. Perhaps language like "and even twitter" would be > more ideal. Possibly, yeah. Since the driver exists, I was putting it in as an example of the really unusual things you could do withFDWs, i.e. that they're not limited to pulling from just other RDBMSes. --Josh
BTW, I've moved the release to git now, so if you add edits on the wiki please let me know. --Josh