Обсуждение: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

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Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Rafael Martinez
Дата:
".... The Commission's investigation showed that another open source
database, PostgreSQL, is considered by many database users to be a
credible alternative to MySQL and could be expected to replace to some
extent the competitive force currently exerted by MySQL on the database
market ....."

Ref:http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/10/40&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

--
 Rafael Martinez, <r.m.guerrero@usit.uio.no>
 Center for Information Technology Services
 University of Oslo, Norway

 PGP Public Key: http://folk.uio.no/rafael/

Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
damien clochard
Дата:
Rafael Martinez a écrit :
> ".... The Commission's investigation showed that another open source
> database, PostgreSQL, is considered by many database users to be a
> credible alternative to MySQL and could be expected to replace to some
> extent the competitive force currently exerted by MySQL on the database
> market ....."
>
> Ref:http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/10/40&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
>


Sounds like a syllogism to me :

 (A) There should be alternatives to Oracle
 and (B) PostgreSQL is a credible alternative to MySQL
 So (C) Oracle can buy MySQL


Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Richard Broersma
Дата:
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 2:37 PM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote:

> Sounds like a syllogism to me :
>
>  (A) There should be alternatives to Oracle
>  and (B) PostgreSQL is a credible alternative to MySQL
>  So (C) Oracle can buy MySQL


Sounds like free advertising to me.


--
Regards,
Richard Broersma Jr.

Visit the Los Angeles PostgreSQL Users Group (LAPUG)
http://pugs.postgresql.org/lapug

Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
David Fetter
Дата:
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 03:01:27PM -0800, Richard Broersma wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 2:37 PM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote:
> > Sounds like a syllogism to me :
> >
> >  (A) There should be alternatives to Oracle  and (B) PostgreSQL is
> > a credible alternative to MySQL  So (C) Oracle can buy MySQL
>
> Sounds like free advertising to me.

Sure does.

Now as to whether MySQL would be a "credible alternative" to
PostgreSQL...well, only one person I've talked with who's ever worked
there has said anything of the kind, and he was in sales, and it was
2002.

Cheers,
David.
--
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com
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Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Gabriele Bartolini
Дата:
Ciao,

David Fetter ha scritto:
> Sure does.
>
However, there are not many people who think like the EC about
PostgreSQL. Unfortunately, in Italy, the major IT online magazine has
only pointed out that Florian Muller thinks that PostgreSQL can't be a
valid alternative. Here is the original message
(http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=112003NN5V4G&full_skip=1):

"The EC's reasoning has to be reviewed when all the details of the
decision are known, but based on the EC's press release, it seems to be
a decision based on wishful thinking for the future more so than
anything else," Mueller said. "PostgreSQL has been around for decades
without having had its mainstream breakthrough, so the EC can't
seriously claim that PostgreSQL could replace MySQL as a competitive
force."

If PostgreSQL is based on "wishful thinking for the future", I don't
know what to think about MariaDB then.

I am about to comment that article in Italy - as it gives an unobjective
representation of PostgreSQL -, but I'd love to know if the PostgreSQL
community is thinking of a public announcement about this speculation on
PostgreSQL, following MySQL acquisition of Oracle. Maybe we should wait
next Wednesday when we will know more about the future of Oracle MySQL
(at least officially).

Any comments?

Ciao,
Gabriele

--
 Gabriele Bartolini - 2ndQuadrant Italia
 PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
 gabriele.bartolini@2ndQuadrant.it | www.2ndQuadrant.it


Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Gabriele Bartolini wrote:
> Ciao,
>
> David Fetter ha scritto:
> > Sure does.
> >
> However, there are not many people who think like the EC about
> PostgreSQL. Unfortunately, in Italy, the major IT online magazine has
> only pointed out that Florian Muller thinks that PostgreSQL can't be a
> valid alternative. Here is the original message
> (http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=112003NN5V4G&full_skip=1):
>
> "The EC's reasoning has to be reviewed when all the details of the
> decision are known, but based on the EC's press release, it seems to be
> a decision based on wishful thinking for the future more so than
> anything else," Mueller said. "PostgreSQL has been around for decades
> without having had its mainstream breakthrough, so the EC can't
> seriously claim that PostgreSQL could replace MySQL as a competitive
> force."
>
> If PostgreSQL is based on "wishful thinking for the future", I don't
> know what to think about MariaDB then.
>
> I am about to comment that article in Italy - as it gives an unobjective
> representation of PostgreSQL -, but I'd love to know if the PostgreSQL
> community is thinking of a public announcement about this speculation on
> PostgreSQL, following MySQL acquisition of Oracle. Maybe we should wait
> next Wednesday when we will know more about the future of Oracle MySQL
> (at least officially).

Wow, Florian Muller's comments seem so out of the mainstream that I
think replying to them in a public announcement would just lend them
legitimacy.

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:

> Wow, Florian Muller's comments seem so out of the mainstream that I
> think replying to them in a public announcement would just lend them
> legitimacy.

Well he's right in a way. We'd have to implement all manner of
gotchas, bugs and just plain weirdness in our code before we could
claim to replace MySQL.

:-p

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Greg Smith
Дата:
Gabriele Bartolini wrote:
> Unfortunately, in Italy, the major IT online magazine has only pointed
> out that Florian Muller thinks that PostgreSQL can't be a valid
> alternative.

Before I got to his comments, I saw the helpful disclaimer they added of
"former MySQL shareholder", and knew there wasn't going to be a unbiased
comment coming before I even read it.

--
Greg Smith    2ndQuadrant   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg@2ndQuadrant.com  www.2ndQuadrant.com


Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Leif Biberg Kristensen
Дата:
On Friday 22. January 2010 14.49.47 Dave Page wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
>
> > Wow, Florian Muller's comments seem so out of the mainstream that I
> > think replying to them in a public announcement would just lend them
> > legitimacy.
>
> Well he's right in a way. We'd have to implement all manner of
> gotchas, bugs and just plain weirdness in our code before we could
> claim to replace MySQL.
>
> :-p

There's one thing that PostgreSQL still is missing: Transparent upgrades,
without the dump / upgrade / reload routine. That's just too awkward in a
hosted environment.

regards,
--
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/

Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Greg Smith
Дата:
Leif Biberg Kristensen wrote:
> There's one thing that PostgreSQL still is missing: Transparent upgrades,
> without the dump / upgrade / reload routine. That's just too awkward in a
> hosted environment.
>

There's no good solution for 8.2 or below, but pg_migrator does this
just fine for any simple case, starting with PostgreSQL 8.3:
http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pg-migrator

It can be tricky to get the program installed and working properly if
you're not familiar with building software yourself from source.  And
there are limitations related to advanced features like large objects,
or upgrades of user-defined types into 8.4.  But those aren't things I'd
expect your typical install in a hosting environment to have used in the
first place.

Now, actually getting pg_migrator packaged up so that it's easy for
people in a hosted environment to use, that's an unsolved problem as far
as I know.  But the idea that you need dump/upgrade/reload isn't really
true anymore, once you cross the line to running at least 8.3.

--
Greg Smith    2ndQuadrant   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg@2ndQuadrant.com  www.2ndQuadrant.com


Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Alvaro Herrera
Дата:
David Fetter escribió:

> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 2:37 PM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote:
> > > Sounds like a syllogism to me :
> > >
> > >  (A) There should be alternatives to Oracle  and (B) PostgreSQL is
> > > a credible alternative to MySQL  So (C) Oracle can buy MySQL

> Now as to whether MySQL would be a "credible alternative" to
> PostgreSQL...well, only one person I've talked with who's ever worked
> there has said anything of the kind, and he was in sales, and it was
> 2002.

I think "being a credible alternative" is not commutative, so I see no
problem here.

--
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Rob Napier
Дата:
Gabriele

You should be aware that he is wedded to Adobe and other mainstream commercial products and I believe he has a book coming out on Flex.

I think it's worth mentioning that Florian took to our once:radix technology (which, of course, is built on PostgreSQL) with a big stick too. Oh, he was polite about it but nevertheless approached it with a completely closed mind. The fact that organisations such as Bankers Trust use and praise our software is of no interest to him.

Of course PostgreSQL has a far greater success story to tell but that won’t stop him from following his biases. He is building his reputation as a critic.

Ask any restaurateur about critics. They get no mileage out of being fair minded. And they build their reputations by pushing their own particular barrow. The best thing to do is to ignore them. They thrive on controversy.

I found his attitude to be completely intransigent to anything outside of his world view. You won't shift his attitude so it is not worth giving credence to his comments.

On 22/1/10 8:29 PM, "Gabriele Bartolini" <gabriele.bartolini@2ndQuadrant.it> wrote:

> However, there are not many people who think like the EC about
> PostgreSQL. Unfortunately, in Italy, the major IT online magazine has
> only pointed out that Florian Muller thinks that PostgreSQL can't be a
> valid alternative.


Regards

Rob Napier

Re: Commission clears Oracle's proposed acquisition of Sun Microsystems

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
>> However, there are not many people who think like the EC about
>> PostgreSQL. Unfortunately, in Italy, the major IT online magazine has
>> only pointed out that Florian Muller thinks that PostgreSQL can't be a
>> valid alternative.

Well, Florian has a point in that there currently isn't a worldwide
tier-1 support company backing PostgreSQL.  So regardless of technical
merit, it's not the same kind of competitive force which MySQL was, *yet*.

It's also a bit of bizarre reasoning that having one successful open
source SQL database is enough for the market.

*however*, it was my opinion that Sun had already effectively destroyed
the MySQL commercial business, and that regardless of who bought Sun,
MySQL as a centralized commercial entity would be finished.  For that
matter, before the Sun acquisition, MySQL **as a commercial product**
was a smaller database business than Filemaker, and I don't imagine the
EC would hold anti-trust hearings over acquiring that.

--Josh Berkus