Обсуждение: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit

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Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit

От
Joe Conway
Дата:
(moving to advocacy)

Christopher Browne wrote:
> - The main Tuxedo reseller that I am aware of is PeopleSoft, who use
> it for their "high traffic" clients.  Anyone that has seen news lately
> knows that they and Oracle aren't exactly "best pals" these days;
> having another DB option could be helpful to them...

That's an interesting observation, because I've long thought PeopleSoft
ought to support Postgres too. From what I recall, their database schema
is *very* database neutral (at least as of PSFT version 7.x) and fairly
simple (we ran it on MSSQL 6.5). It would probably be pretty easily
ported to run on Postgres.

I wonder how we could get them to consider it...

Joe


Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit

От
Justin Clift
Дата:
Joe Conway wrote:
> (moving to advocacy)
>
> Christopher Browne wrote:
>
>> - The main Tuxedo reseller that I am aware of is PeopleSoft, who use
>> it for their "high traffic" clients.  Anyone that has seen news lately
>> knows that they and Oracle aren't exactly "best pals" these days;
>> having another DB option could be helpful to them...
>
>
> That's an interesting observation, because I've long thought PeopleSoft
> ought to support Postgres too. From what I recall, their database schema
> is *very* database neutral (at least as of PSFT version 7.x) and fairly
> simple (we ran it on MSSQL 6.5). It would probably be pretty easily
> ported to run on Postgres.
>
> I wonder how we could get them to consider it...

Not a bad suggestion.  Just went to their site and submitted an quick
brief of benefits/etc via their "Partner Proposal" page:

http://checkers.peoplesoft.com/allconn/ppp.nsf/PPP?OpenForm&Seq=2#_RefreshKW_type

I'm hoping they are read by People With A Clue, and that they in turn
will pass it on to the right group internally.

Worth a shot I guess.

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


> Joe


Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit

От
Christopher Browne
Дата:
After a long battle with technology,justin@postgresql.org (Justin Clift), an earthling, wrote:
> Worth a shot I guess.
>
> :-)

I'd think that they would take the idea more seriously if PostgreSQL
supported XA and thereby was compatible with Tuxedo.  But it probably
doesn't hurt for them to hear the idea multiple times...
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Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit

От
Christopher Browne
Дата:
After a long battle with technology,mail@joeconway.com (Joe Conway), an earthling, wrote:
> (moving to advocacy)
>
> Christopher Browne wrote:
>> - The main Tuxedo reseller that I am aware of is PeopleSoft, who use
>> it for their "high traffic" clients.  Anyone that has seen news lately
>> knows that they and Oracle aren't exactly "best pals" these days;
>> having another DB option could be helpful to them...
>
> That's an interesting observation, because I've long thought
> PeopleSoft ought to support Postgres too. From what I recall, their
> database schema is *very* database neutral (at least as of PSFT
> version 7.x) and fairly simple (we ran it on MSSQL 6.5). It would
> probably be pretty easily ported to run on Postgres.
>
> I wonder how we could get them to consider it...

XA support so that it would "play well" with Tuxedo would be the best
thing I can think of.  Arguing that they _should_ consider PostgreSQL
when it doesn't support their "scalability extender" wouldn't seem
likely to me to sell well.

That's _exactly_ why I mentioned both products; congruence of
interests...
--
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Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit

От
Bruno Wolff III
Дата:
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 22:46:58 -0700,
  Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com> wrote:
>
> That's an interesting observation, because I've long thought PeopleSoft
> ought to support Postgres too. From what I recall, their database schema
> is *very* database neutral (at least as of PSFT version 7.x) and fairly
> simple (we ran it on MSSQL 6.5). It would probably be pretty easily
> ported to run on Postgres.

In my opinion it is too database agnostic. They pretty much just use the
DB as a file. From what I have seen of the system it is one big hack.

Their trusted client security model is ridiculous. Fortunately in
version 8 you don't have to let people run 2 tier accept for developer
types. (Anyone with 2 tier access owns the system.) I really don't
even trust 3 tier access, because I believe that a fair amount of
security is enforced by the client rather than the app server.

It was annoying that the set of characters usable for passwords in 7.6
(and presumably still apply to the connect ID in 8) was restricted
because they didn't want to quote the password string so that you could
have special characters in it.

They aren't big on using referential integrity to keep the data clean.

Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit

От
Joe Conway
Дата:
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 22:46:58 -0700,
>   Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com> wrote:
>
>>That's an interesting observation, because I've long thought PeopleSoft
>>ought to support Postgres too. From what I recall, their database schema
>>is *very* database neutral (at least as of PSFT version 7.x) and fairly
>>simple (we ran it on MSSQL 6.5). It would probably be pretty easily
>>ported to run on Postgres.
>
>
> In my opinion it is too database agnostic. They pretty much just use the
> DB as a file. From what I have seen of the system it is one big hack.

Yeah, I didn't say I *liked* their schema, just that I thought it would
be easy for them to support Postgres ;-)

Like it or not, they are one of the larger ERP/CRM players (after the
merger with JDEwards, they will be *ahead* of Oracle, only second to
SAP), and having them offer PostgreSQL support would be significant. If
the XA/Tuxedo thing is an issue, they could position it for mid-tier
customers who don't need the transaction manager anyway.

Joe


Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit

От
Christopher Browne
Дата:
Oops! bruno@wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) was seen spray-painting on a wall:
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 22:46:58 -0700,
>   Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com> wrote:
>>
>> That's an interesting observation, because I've long thought
>> PeopleSoft ought to support Postgres too. From what I recall, their
>> database schema is *very* database neutral (at least as of PSFT
>> version 7.x) and fairly simple (we ran it on MSSQL 6.5). It would
>> probably be pretty easily ported to run on Postgres.
>
> In my opinion it is too database agnostic. They pretty much just use
> the DB as a file. From what I have seen of the system it is one big
> hack.

Ah, so it's like the way SAP R/3's HR module works.  (I expect I'm the
only one around that is more than passing familiar with "cluster
tables"; quite supremely nonrelational stuff, and quite
bletcherous...)

To a great extent this comes from the nature of the application.  HR
is all about collecting together "documents," and these applications
replace "paper" with "pseudopaper."

> They aren't big on using referential integrity to keep the data
> clean.

Ditto for SAP R/3; "cleanliness" is, there, imposed by only using
their applications to do updates, which includes writing your software
to invoke their functions.
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