Обсуждение: Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

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Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Robert Treat
Дата:
On Wed, 2003-02-19 at 02:51, Tom Lane wrote:
> Robert Treat <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> writes:
> > We get this question a lot, usually from folks converting from mysql.
> > Do any of the core folks think this is worth adding to contrib? Or
> > perhaps a project on gborg would be more appropriate?
>
> In the long run, the correct SQL-spec-compliant solution is selectable
> collation for each column, and then you could specify a case-insensitive
> collation for the columns you want to act this way.  But I don't really
> foresee that happening in the near future :-(.  In the meantime, a
> specialized datatype seems like an okay hack.
>
> I'd not favor putting it into the core distribution, because that would
> amount to a commitment to support it indefinitely, which I don't want
> to make.  contrib would be iffy for the same reason --- contrib tends
> to have a subtext of "this might be mainstream someday, if it gets
> polished up".  gborg, no problem.
>
> But that's just my $0.02.  Comments anyone?
>

I tend to agree with this. Perhaps what we need is some type of
meta-howto on converting from mysql to postgresql, which would list
specific places to find articles, custom data types, custom functions,
or code examples that folks might want if they are converting from
mysql. This should probably also be done for other databases as well.
This would give another option to the current debate on supporting
informix syntax on hackers right now, put the patch in a gborg project,
and list it as a resource in an informix meta-howto. Obviously this
could be done for oracle and others.. I know the information is out
there, but it's scattered, and given the number of times we see some of
these questions, needs to be easier to find.

Robert Treat


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Robert Treat wrote:
> > I'd not favor putting it into the core distribution, because that would
> > amount to a commitment to support it indefinitely, which I don't want
> > to make.  contrib would be iffy for the same reason --- contrib tends
> > to have a subtext of "this might be mainstream someday, if it gets
> > polished up".  gborg, no problem.
> >
> > But that's just my $0.02.  Comments anyone?
> >
>
> I tend to agree with this. Perhaps what we need is some type of
> meta-howto on converting from mysql to postgresql, which would list
> specific places to find articles, custom data types, custom functions,
> or code examples that folks might want if they are converting from
> mysql. This should probably also be done for other databases as well.
> This would give another option to the current debate on supporting
> informix syntax on hackers right now, put the patch in a gborg project,
> and list it as a resource in an informix meta-howto. Obviously this
> could be done for oracle and others.. I know the information is out
> there, but it's scattered, and given the number of times we see some of
> these questions, needs to be easier to find.

This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.

--
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
Guys,

> This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.

I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce site that's
more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML of
Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.

Thoughts, people?

--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Rod Taylor
Дата:
On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 12:49, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Guys,
>
> > This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
>
> I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce site that's
> more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML of
> Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.

Step 1: Put all of the websites into CVS
Step 2: Make them accessible by anonymous CVS
Step 3: Advertise somewhere how to get and change sources, and submit a
patch.

I can't count the number of times I've sent in emails when I would have
preferred to send a patch.  The only website I can find source for
(without trying hard) is developers.postgresql.org.

--
Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>

PGP Key: http://www.rbt.ca/rbtpub.asc

Вложения

Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Justin Clift
Дата:
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Guys,
>
>>This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
>
> I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce site that's
> more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML of
> Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.
>
> Thoughts, people?

Sure.  When Techdocs gets moved to the new Virtual Machine in a month or
two it'll be a 100% Wiki styled thing.  However, it'll have more control
available than the standard "free for all" Wiki's.  i.e. A page creator
can request for their pages to be editable only by other Techdocs
members or only by certain selected members, etc.  Can create groups of
users as well and assign access permissions to them, etc.

So, the whole site will be based on a multiple contributor framework.
The only drawback is that the software doesn't play friendly with
languages other than English, so it won't be multi-lingual at this stage.

:-/

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

--
"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Justin Clift
Дата:
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Guys,
>
>>This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
>
> I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce site that's
> more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML of
> Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.
>
> Thoughts, people?

Sure.  When Techdocs gets moved to the new Virtual Machine in a month or
two it'll be a 100% Wiki styled thing.  However, it'll have more control
available than the standard "free for all" Wiki's.  i.e. A page creator
can request for their pages to be editable only by other Techdocs
members or only by certain selected members, etc.  Can create groups of
users as well and assign access permissions to them, etc.

So, the whole site will be based on a multiple contributor framework.
The only drawback is that the software doesn't play friendly with
languages other than English, so it won't be multi-lingual at this stage.

:-/

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

--
"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi



Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Justin Clift
Дата:
Rod Taylor wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 12:49, Josh Berkus wrote:
>
>>Guys,
>>
>>>This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
>>
>>I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce site that's
>>more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML of
>>Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
>>PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.
>
> Step 1: Put all of the websites into CVS

Ewww Yuk!

Websites in CVS?  That's a horrible thought.  Sure, it's better than the
present "people with accounts on the server can upload" mostly-manual
approach, but it's not as good as Zwiki will do.

Zwiki allows for good web based editing, it lets people be added to
groups and have group permissions set, etc.  It's very nifty.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


> Step 2: Make them accessible by anonymous CVS
> Step 3: Advertise somewhere how to get and change sources, and submit a
> patch.
>
> I can't count the number of times I've sent in emails when I would have
> preferred to send a patch.  The only website I can find source for
> (without trying hard) is developers.postgresql.org.



--
"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Robert Treat
Дата:
On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 13:11, Rod Taylor wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 12:49, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Guys,
> >
> > > This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
> >
> > I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce
> site that's
> > more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML of
>
> > Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> > PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.

I've looked at it before. The hard part is reconciling the fact that so
much logic has been put into the application to make up for the lack of
features in mysql.

Personally I think the zope/zwiki combination (that Justin has been
promoting for the guides section) is fine for this type of thing, we
just need someone to get a better handle on the situation. I have half a
list done of some things that need to be done with techdocs, but have
found time to get it finalized to really do anything about it. I suspect
that Justin has the same issue; that is, he's pulled in so many
different directions that techdocs quickly falls low on his priority
list.

>
> Step 1: Put all of the websites into CVS
> Step 2: Make them accessible by anonymous CVS
> Step 3: Advertise somewhere how to get and change sources, and submit a
> patch.
>
> I can't count the number of times I've sent in emails when I would have
> preferred to send a patch.  The only website I can find source for
> (without trying hard) is developers.postgresql.org.
>

Good lord if this isn't true. I'm not sure why the current maintainers
have shied away from it, but they have. I'm actually putting the
finishing touches on a proposal for the www group to get things moved
into CVS, it's my current "hot topic" I'm trying to focus on (after
weekly news, newsgroups, phppgadmin stuff (development/website/demo
site), oh and my job and wife and kids... yeesh.) I think I can finish
it up today or tomorrow, it's nothing monumental, more of a statement of
goals...

Robert Treat


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Rod Taylor
Дата:
On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 13:21, Justin Clift wrote:
> Rod Taylor wrote:
> > On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 12:49, Josh Berkus wrote:
> >
> >>Guys,
> >>
> >>>This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
> >>
> >>I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce site that's
> >>more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML of
> >>Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> >>PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.
> >
> > Step 1: Put all of the websites into CVS
>
> Ewww Yuk!
>
> Websites in CVS?  That's a horrible thought.  Sure, it's better than the
> present "people with accounts on the server can upload" mostly-manual
> approach, but it's not as good as Zwiki will do.

> Zwiki allows for good web based editing, it lets people be added to
> groups and have group permissions set, etc.  It's very nifty.

Great.. How about advocacy? the portal? etc.  Maybe all we have is code,
config files, and style sheets.

Still, whatever tools you pick, configure, or change make it public
(where copyright allows).

Simple things like idocs.php or the jobs.php code could be improved upon
(code always can be), yet if I have an idea that may only take an hour
to implement it's near to impossible to find the sources -- so I've not
bothered.

I'd be willing to bet there are a large number of people willing
(wanting) to do 10 minutes work here and there on the websites that
don't because it takes longer than that to find the materials.



--
Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>

PGP Key: http://www.rbt.ca/rbtpub.asc

Вложения

Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Robert Treat
Дата:
On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 13:29, Rod Taylor wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 13:21, Justin Clift wrote:
> > Rod Taylor wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 12:49, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > >
> > >>Guys,
> > >>
> > >>>This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
> > >>
> > >>I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce
> site that's
> > >>more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML
> of
> > >>Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> > >>PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.
> > >
> > > Step 1: Put all of the websites into CVS
> >
> > Ewww Yuk!
> >
> > Websites in CVS?  That's a horrible thought.  Sure, it's better than
> the
> > present "people with accounts on the server can upload" mostly-manual
> > approach, but it's not as good as Zwiki will do.
>
> > Zwiki allows for good web based editing, it lets people be added to
> > groups and have group permissions set, etc.  It's very nifty.
>
> Great.. How about advocacy? the portal? etc.  Maybe all we have is code,
> config files, and style sheets.
>
> Still, whatever tools you pick, configure, or change make it public
> (where copyright allows).
>
> Simple things like idocs.php or the jobs.php code could be improved upon
> (code always can be), yet if I have an idea that may only take an hour
> to implement it's near to impossible to find the sources -- so I've not
> bothered.
>
> I'd be willing to bet there are a large number of people willing
> (wanting) to do 10 minutes work here and there on the websites that
> don't because it takes longer than that to find the materials.
>

I agree with this 100%.  Heck, I have access to the code and I still
find it a pain to do anything since we don't have a cvs interface to it.
I'm planning on focusing on www first. Most of it is brochureware
oriented site, with non collaborative content, and non content oriented
development needed ; the types of site that should be done in CVS. (BTW
I had hoped to finish it up last night, but the current postgresql.org
outage has stopped me in my tracks)

Techdocs is a different beast, it's all about collaborative content
development, and as such the zwiki framework should work well for it.

Robert Treat


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
Robert,

> I agree with this 100%.  Heck, I have access to the code and I still
> find it a pain to do anything since we don't have a cvs interface to it.
> I'm planning on focusing on www first. Most of it is brochureware
> oriented site, with non collaborative content, and non content oriented
> development needed ; the types of site that should be done in CVS. (BTW
> I had hoped to finish it up last night, but the current postgresql.org
> outage has stopped me in my tracks)

Once again, I suggest that you consider Bricolage for the main sites,
particularly to deal with mirror management.   David would happily give us a
free account.

> Techdocs is a different beast, it's all about collaborative content
> development, and as such the zwiki framework should work well for it.

Zwiki is Zope/Python, yes?   Unfortunately, I don't see how I could help get
this implemented faster ...  I do SQL, PHP and Perl.

--
-Josh Berkus
 Aglio Database Solutions
 San Francisco


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Justin Clift
Дата:
Rod Taylor wrote:
<snip>
 > Great.. How about advocacy? the portal? etc.  Maybe all we have is code,
 > config files, and style sheets.

Hmmm, putting the Advocacy site into CVS might be a win, because it's
definitely not the kind of thing that Zwiki is good for.  It's more of a
code (that would go in CVS) and live database data (web based
interface).  The code for the web based interface could be put in CVS too.


 > Still, whatever tools you pick, configure, or change make it public
 > (where copyright allows).

Agreed.  It's more of a "time thing" than anything else.


 > Simple things like idocs.php or the jobs.php code could be improved upon
 > (code always can be), yet if I have an idea that may only take an hour
 > to implement it's near to impossible to find the sources -- so I've not
 > bothered.
 >
 > I'd be willing to bet there are a large number of people willing
 > (wanting) to do 10 minutes work here and there on the websites that
 > don't because it takes longer than that to find the materials.

Probably a pretty accurate way of looking at it.

It would be really good to spread the development effort for the
websites into the PostgreSQL Community properly.  The techdocs site is
becoming so unmaintained that it's saddening.  :(

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

--
"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Devrim GUNDUZ
Дата:
Hi,
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Josh Berkus wrote:

<snip>
>  I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.

I've done it months ago; but I can't find the codes :-(

But it wasn't that hard. I've used the well-known script that converts
MySQL PHP to PostgreSQL PHP(could not remember the name of the script).
Then converted table schemas with another program.

All I patched was about 10 lines of table inserts.

If anyone is willing.. it'll last about 5 hours ;)

Best regards,

--
Devrim GUNDUZ

devrim@gunduz.org
devrim.gunduz@linux.org.tr
            http://www.gunduz.org


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Kevin Brown
Дата:
Justin Clift wrote:
> Josh Berkus wrote:
> >Guys,
> >
> >>This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
> >
> >I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce site
> >that's more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML
> >of Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> >PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.
> >
> >Thoughts, people?
>
> Sure.  When Techdocs gets moved to the new Virtual Machine in a month or
> two it'll be a 100% Wiki styled thing.  However, it'll have more control
> available than the standard "free for all" Wiki's.  i.e. A page creator
> can request for their pages to be editable only by other Techdocs
> members or only by certain selected members, etc.  Can create groups of
> users as well and assign access permissions to them, etc.
>
> So, the whole site will be based on a multiple contributor framework.
> The only drawback is that the software doesn't play friendly with
> languages other than English, so it won't be multi-lingual at this
> stage.

What language is it written in?

My understanding is that current versions of Perl (5.8, at least) can
handle Unicode natively now (so strings composed of Unicode characters
are handled properly -- it just does the Right Thing with them), so if
it's written in Perl it should Just Work -- or come close to it.


--
Kevin Brown                          kevin@sysexperts.com


Re: [ADMIN] uppercase = lowercase

От
Robert Treat
Дата:
AFAIK the new site runs on zwiki, which is a zope based wiki engine,
which is written in python.

Robert Treat

On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 04:10, Kevin Brown wrote:
> Justin Clift wrote:
> > Josh Berkus wrote:
> > >Guys,
> > >
> > >>This is what techdocs.postgresql.org is for.
> > >
> > >I've been thinking for some time that we need a Postgresql resouce site
> > >that's more open to multiple contributors than the current hard-coded HTML
> > >of Techdocs.   I was planning on experimenting in porting PostNuke to
> > >PostgreSQL, but haven't had time.
> > >
> > >Thoughts, people?
> >
> > Sure.  When Techdocs gets moved to the new Virtual Machine in a month or
> > two it'll be a 100% Wiki styled thing.  However, it'll have more control
> > available than the standard "free for all" Wiki's.  i.e. A page creator
> > can request for their pages to be editable only by other Techdocs
> > members or only by certain selected members, etc.  Can create groups of
> > users as well and assign access permissions to them, etc.
> >
> > So, the whole site will be based on a multiple contributor framework.
> > The only drawback is that the software doesn't play friendly with
> > languages other than English, so it won't be multi-lingual at this
> > stage.
>
> What language is it written in?
>
> My understanding is that current versions of Perl (5.8, at least) can
> handle Unicode natively now (so strings composed of Unicode characters
> are handled properly -- it just does the Right Thing with them), so if
> it's written in Perl it should Just Work -- or come close to it.
>
>
> --
> Kevin Brown                          kevin@sysexperts.com
>
>
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