Re: pgadmin4 - Use classic style interface, don't launch browser?
От | Mark Murawski |
---|---|
Тема | Re: pgadmin4 - Use classic style interface, don't launch browser? |
Дата | |
Msg-id | ffa9bef5-1f9f-aaaa-bdba-de012a59b253@intellasoft.net обсуждение исходный текст |
Ответ на | Re: pgadmin4 - Use classic style interface, don't launch browser? (richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com>) |
Ответы |
Re: pgadmin4 - Use classic style interface, don't launch browser?
(Avin Kavish <avinkavish@gmail.com>)
Re: pgadmin4 - Use classic style interface, don't launch browser? (Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org>) |
Список | pgadmin-support |
Wow.. I go on vacation for a few days and I find this heated thread going full speed ahead! Interesting history on why the removal of the 'native interface' occurred. I do a lot of web work and routinely wind up with locked up or crashed browsers, so having pgadmin4 run in a browser tab is less than ideal.. although sometimes I run firefox/chrome as another user to have some memory/process separation so that not ALL of my browsers die when chrome/firefox barfs up a big one. I suppose I could maintain yet another user and make sure I start up pgadmin4 as that. Would there be a possibility of embedding chromium? Since of course it's actively developed and everyone including their pet cat are using it as a rendering engine these days (including microsoft) Not sure of the compatibility with the BSD license would go... On 7/28/19 2:54 PM, richard coleman wrote: > Avin, > > Let me start by saying; > grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes.png > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:43 AM Avin Kavish <avinkavish@gmail.com > <mailto:avinkavish@gmail.com>> wrote: > > They weren't aimed directly at anyone in particular. They were > suggestions for go-getters who like to take control of their own > fate and instead of waiting for the randomness of the universe to > deliver unto them what they seek. Maybe I should have put a warning > saying "not for the faint hearted, requires effort and reading docs > to accomplish" > Your missive appeared directed at the fella who was complaining > about the problems that pgAdmin4 relying on a browser was causing > him, especially in regards to password management. I apologize if I > misunderstood. > > so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either open a > command line/terminal every time he wants to start pgAdmin4 or write > a batch/shell script to start it. He would also have to remember to > start the pgAdmin /server/ separately and forget about using the > "New pgAdmin window" function. To add insult to injury, he'd have > to have separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or > to run it full screen. > > ^ With the way you word things, even standing up sounds hard. It's > all perspective, it's accomplishable with a bit of effort. While it > may not be possible to get nativefier to behave as described above, > because it's an automated tool, you can script electron to do all of > the above for you. > That depends on the person, for some people /putting in half a dozen > stitches /is accomplishable with a bit of effort (heck I've done it > myself, painful but surely doable). I would still recommend someone > who's sliced themselves open go to the emergency room, or at least > see a doctor. But I guess it's all a matter of /perspective/ 😉. > > > To add insult to injury, > > ^ There are no insults nor injuries mate, surely nothing physical. > It leads me to believe that you are referring to emotional injury. > Which then leads me to conclude that you are too emotional about > this whole business of administering a database thing. Or maybe you > are a fan of hyperbole, I don't know. Tone is up to interpretation > in written communication. > > Actually that's called /a figure of speech /[ *no end users were harmed > in the writing of the previous email*]. > > > quite often actually. I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't > involve a web browser. > > ^ Sure, do that work and also keep the web browser open? How does a > web browser window interrupt your work? How is it any different from > having a dedicated window open? Do you run out of RAM or something? > Do you accidentally start browsing memes when you have a browser > open? What's the problem? Be explicit about what's wrong with the > browser. > > In my case, I don't need it, and yes I *do* run out of RAM or > something (Can I have just a /little more RAM sir? )😋./ > > > pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his > problem, which revolved around password management > > ^ It wasn't meant to solve the password problem but needing a > standalone window problem, which is also mentioned in the write up. > In fact, this email wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It is a > general write up with a few suggestions for all the standalone > window needs I've seen over the past few days. I haven't directly > addressed anyone. I'm not sure you who you are referring to by > "his". I'm just a developer sharing my knowledge in hopes that > someone would benefit from it. > > I don't know, but I am pretty sure /most/ people these days (with the > possible exception of my over 70 father) know how to either pull off a > tab, or start another instance of their web browser. '/His/' was the > person who wrote the initial email complaining about pgAdmin4 running in > a browser and making a mess of his password management. > > > Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write pgAdmin4 > as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web server. > However I don't think that there is much of a desire among the > /official/ dev team to change this > > ^ pgAdmin4 cannot be changed from a client-server architecture to > anything else. It is too late. A re-write would be required, which > is a breaking change. The only possibility is to affect the design > decisions of pgAdmin5 or 6. If anyone makes a factual and formal > presentation of why the existing client-server architecture should > be replaced with something else rather than improving it, we could > have a serious discussion. But I doubt it, I think everything can be > improved within the current architecture. > Yes, as a developer I realize the work it would take at this stage > to create an actual client program as opposed to the embedded web > server that it is now. Which is why I wrote that I don't see much > of a desire among the official dev team to change things. If you, > or any member of the dev team wants to have a serious discussion > about the merits and limitations of the current architecture with a > goal of possibly changing things, I'm all for it. Unfortunately it > appears that the design and road map have already been determined by > the current dev team. With the exception of reported bugs, or > unforeseen issues, they don't appear to be open to any substantial > changes. > > One thing I don't see in these emails is any credible facts and > arguments against browsers, just a statement of personal unhappiness > at the change of status quo. Maybe, if arguments based on facts that > affect user experience, security or performance were provided, the > team would do something about them, as they have been doing since > the start. Instead, I see complaints. I don't see constructive > feedback on possible improvements on this topic. I don't see > solutions. I don't even see real problems. > Hmmm.. where to begin. > > * not all browsers are supported (as evidenced by a bug report where I > was told that Chromium isn't a /supported/ browser) > * you have to run the UI as a separate program from the program itself > * you have to worry about collisions between a /particular/ browser's > short cuts and another's (Chrome is different from FireFox is > different from Edge, etc.) > * context (or right-click) menus aren't typical of a desktop program > (no copy / paste option in the query window for example) > * you are limited to a single /window /(tab) > * you don't have true pop-ups/dialog boxes/notifications > * if you detach a query editor panel, you can't reattach it (though > that's hopefully just an unresolved bug) > * your /session/ is now open to attacks from malicious plugins or > random people across the internet (it's a /browser/ after all) > * your user / password management is effected by your particular > browser's cache or policy > * you're limited to the sand boxed security restrictions of the > particular browser you happen to be using (try loading a 10 GB file) > * disruptions of the connection between the application and the UI, > timeout's etc. occur (long running pgAdmin4 sessions can cause the > UI to freeze under kubuntu). > > Not an exhaustive listing by any stretch, just what I could come > up with off the top of my head. > > so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript developer > he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a perceived pgAdmin4 > shortcoming. > > ^ yeah absolutely, write your own programs without asking other > people to do it for you for free of charge !!!!????? It's open > source software. No one owes you anything. This is distributed > without liability > <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>. The existence of > postgresql and pgadmin itself are mere courtesies. > > > 😂 No one said that they were *owed* anything. No one is claiming > anyone is /liable/ for anything either. Saying that if you don't like > it you should just write your own is rather short sighted. Unless the > dev team is writing pgAdmin4 *only* for *themselves* then they should > care about what the end users care about. Otherwise they may find that > they are the only ones using it. 🤔 > > > I did not mean write an entirely new admin app, I meant embed > pgAdmin4 in Electron which literally takes 5 lines of code as a > start <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>. 1. Create a > browser window. 2. Point it to pgAdmin4 URL. 3. Enjoy !!. If you > know SQL, this is definitely do-able. And no it's not like the > normal browser window. It will look like a normal app. Or you could > increase the immersion by creating a frameless window but you may > not be able to close it normally. > https://electronjs.org/docs/api/frameless-window > > Here's a starting point. Follow this getting started > <https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/first-app>first and replace > the code in main.js > > |const { app, BrowserWindow } = require('electron') let win function > createWindow () { win = new BrowserWindow({ width: 800, height: 600, > webPreferences: { nodeIntegration: true } }) win.loadURL('|http://127.0.0.1:45707/browser/') // <--- Fix the port numberand point this address to it. > > |win.on('closed', () => { win = null }) } app.on('ready', > createWindow) app.on('window-all-closed', () => { if > (process.platform !== 'darwin') { app.quit() } }) app.on('activate', > () => { if (win === null) { createWindow() } })| > > That's all there is to it. Once you have that working, you can take > it a step further by getting electron to launch the pgadmin4 server > if it is not running already by using spawn > <https://nodejs.org/api/child_process.html#child_process_child_process_execsync_command_options> > > It's nice that you included the above, but it's not terribly helpful > to the /non/-programmer. I could write the Lorentz transformation > equations to handle relative velocities in special relativity > > image.png > > but unless you're familiar with differential calculus and special > relativity it's not very helpful. > > *Maybe an alternate launch option based on Electron should be an > officially supported feature ?* > > Maybe. Though I think it would have to handle the above mentioned > limitations, and be /built in/ for it to help *most* people. > > So there, no attacks, insults, or other /negativity. / Just one man's > opinion. > > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:07 AM richard coleman > <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com <mailto:rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Hi Avin, > > My $0.02 > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 2:11 PM Avin Kavish > <avinkavish@gmail.com <mailto:avinkavish@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hey, > > Here's some unofficial input on the topic. > > This request baffles me for two reasons. > > a. Why does one need a standalone window when they can have > pgAdmin open in a tab while multi-tasking. Is there ever a > time when the web browser is closed while using a pc in > 2019? If you lose tabs you can pin the tab and it will > always be on the left side. > > quite often actually. I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't > involve a web browser. > > b. If you want it to run in it's own window, you can drag > and pull the tab to it's own standalone window. > > pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his > problem, which revolved around password management > > If that doesn't solve your problem, > > You can try Nativefier but you might need to launch pgAdmin > on the same port each time. It basically wraps any web site > in an electron app. Electron fyi allows developing desktop > apps using web technologies. It's based on chromium and > nodejs and renders web apps just like google chrome would. > https://github.com/jiahaog/nativefier > > so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either > open a command line/terminal every time he wants to start > pgAdmin4 or write a batch/shell script to start it. He would > also have to remember to start the pgAdmin /server/ separately > and forget about using the "New pgAdmin window" function. To > add insult to injury, he'd have to have > separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or to > run it full screen. > > > Or if you are a javascript developer you can write an > electron app yourself to encapsulate and extend upon the > current functionality. https://electronjs.org/ > > so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript > developer he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a > perceived pgAdmin4 shortcoming. > > Personally, I find it convenient to have it as a tab while > reading docs and other stuff and often prefer it to > switching to my IDE. > > I'm glad that you find the current set up convenient, > unfortunately it seems like this is a problem for at least Mark > and tutiluren. > > Once again, this is unofficial. I'm not part of the team. > > neither am I. > > Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write > pgAdmin4 as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web > server. However I don't think that there is much of a desire > among the /official/ dev team to change this. > > rik. > > Regards, > Avin > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 10:51 PM Murtuza Zabuawala > <murtuza.zabuawala@enterprisedb.com > <mailto:murtuza.zabuawala@enterprisedb.com>> wrote: > > Hello, > > I am afraid this is not possible at a moment, pgAdmin4 > doesn't have its own UI rendering engine so it is > dependent on the default web browser on the user's system. > > -- Murtuza > > On Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 21:32 Mark Murawski, > <markm-lists@intellasoft.net > <mailto:markm-lists@intellasoft.net>> wrote: > > Hello! > > How can I go back to the traditional pgadmin4 > interface where it runs in > its own window. I do not want to launch it as a > browser tab. > >
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