On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 12:11 PM Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 11:19 AM Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> wrote:
> > I disagree that ownership is needed that's not what the spec calls for
> > either. What we need is more flexibility when it comes to the
> > relationships which are allowed to be created between roles and what
> > privileges come with them. To that end, I'd argue that we should be
> > extending pg_auth_members, first by separating out membership itself
> > into an explicitly tracked attribute (instead of being implicit in the
> > existance of a row in the table) and then adding on what other
> > privileges we see fit to add, such as the ability to DROP a role. We
> > do need to remove the ability for a role who hasn't been explicitly
> > given the admin right on another role to modify that role's membership
> > too, as was originally proposed here. This also seems to more closely
> > follow the spec's expectation, something that role ownership doesn't.
>
> I do not have a problem with more fine-grained kinds of authorization
> even though I think there are syntactic issues to work out, but I
> strongly disagree with the idea that we can't or shouldn't also have
> role ownership. Marc invented it. Now Tom has invented it
> independently. All sorts of other objects have it already. Trying to
> make it out like this is some kind of kooky idea is not believable.
> Yeah, it's not the most sophisticated or elegant model and that's why
> it's good for us to also have other things, but for simple cases it is
> easy to understand and works great.
Ownership implies DAC, the ability to grant others rights to an
object. It's not "kooky" to see roles as owned objects, but it isn't
required either. For example most objects on a UNIX system are owned
and subject to DAC but users aren't.
Stephen's, and now my, issue with ownership is that, since it implies
DAC, most checks will be bypassed for the owner. We would both prefer
for everyone to be subject to the grants, including whoever created
the role.
Rather, we'd like to see a "creators of roles get this set of grants
against the role by default" and "as a superuser I can revoke grants
from creators against roles they created"