On 01/22/2016 09:30 AM, David E. Wheeler wrote:
> On Jan 22, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com> wrote:
>
>>> It excludes people who don’t participate in the list because of issues they’ve had there in the past.
>>
>> When and whom? This is the time for those that had issues to speak up either directly or through someone else. In
doingso though I would expect verifiable information.
>
> So here we have a chicken-and-egg issue. If there is no CoC (or an insufficient one), then people who have been hurt
inthe past don’t want to participate. You need the security of a CoC before it’s safe to come back. It is not up to
themto prove themselves to you, to verify that they have suffered just for some sort of confirmation for you.
Actually they or someone does, if for no other reason then to define
what hurt is? A good part of the endless discussion has revolved around
at what point people take offense. Without some actual input from those
who have felt offended, then the discussion is pretty much useless.
>
> The way to involve a broader audience is to solicit feedback from outside the immediate confines of a single mail
list.Or even the community itself. People have left the community because of issues; how do you get their help fixing
thethings over which they left?
>
> BTW, I am one of those “through someone else” people of which you speak.
Then speak to details.
>
> Best,
>
> David
>
--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@aklaver.com